Free Agent WRs

What do the 80's have to do with today?

Take a good look at those players they were all brought in by Bobby Beathard.

Do you understand that the NFL and defenses are far different now than they were in the 80's?

You do know Gibbs was out of football for 12 year's? It is very difficult to be what you once were with age, let alone taking 12 years off away from the game. There is no way Gibbs could be in tuned to what is going on with personel in college or the NFL that only comes with time.

And just for the record Patton would have flurished in the 80's in that system as well. So to compare the 2 just doesn't wash.

The biggest knock on Gibbs since he has come back is his inability to catch his offense up with today's defenses. But the best job Gibbs has done is hired Williams to run the defense, because without a top dominating defense we are horrible, even with an average or decent defense we get lambasted this past season, we went to the playoffs because our defense carried us there, end of story!

This is a little harsh. It was not all Greg Williams. Joe Gibbs was never all about X's & O's...he is a leader of men. He gets them to believe and play harder for him than they woluld anyone else. He envigorated the entire organization with a winning attitude. If it was all defense than why didn't spurrier win with the excellent defense that Marvin lewis built for him? Joe Gibbs has turned everything he touches into a winner. Greg Williams in Buffalo was a failure as a head coach even with one of the best defenses in the league. No doubt Greg Williams is a great defensive coach...but it was Gibbs who built the winning foundation and reinstilled the pride in being a Redskin.

What do the 80's have to do with today?

Take a good look at those players they were all brought in by Bobby Beathard.

Do you understand that the NFL and defenses are far different now than they were in the 80's?

You do know Gibbs was out of football for 12 year's? It is very difficult to be what you once were with age, let alone taking 12 years off away from the game. There is no way Gibbs could be in tuned to what is going on with personel in college or the NFL that only comes with time.

And just for the record Patton would have flurished in the 80's in that system as well. So to compare the 2 just doesn't wash.

The biggest knock on Gibbs since he has come back is his inability to catch his offense up with today's defenses. But the best job Gibbs has done is hired Williams to run the defense, because without a top dominating defense we are horrible, even with an average or decent defense we get lambasted this past season, we went to the playoffs because our defense carried us there, end of story!

Our defense was very instrumental in getting us to the playoffs. But the offense didn't just sit on its ass all season. There are still some kinks to work out (as with any team) but to still say that Gibbs' offense hasn't caught up to today's defenses is, well to be blunt, idiotic. It's so idiotic, it's Offissotic (that was mean I know, but damn funny if I may say so myself).

This is a little harsh. It was not all Greg Williams. Joe Gibbs was never all about X's & O's...he is a leader of men. He gets them to believe and play harder for him than they woluld anyone else. He envigorated the entire organization with a winning attitude. If it was all defense than why didn't spurrier win with the excellent defense that Marvin lewis built for him? Joe Gibbs has turned everything he touches into a winner. Greg Williams in Buffalo was a failure as a head coach even with one of the best defenses in the league. No doubt Greg Williams is a great defensive coach...but it was Gibbs who built the winning foundation and reinstilled the pride in being a Redskin.

Very good reply, I agree that Gibbs organizational skills are probably maybe the best ever, I also agree that had a big part in the turn around of the team.

But I do disagree with the Lewis analogy, our defense under Lewis although ranked in the top 10 stat wise, never really could stop anyone when it counted, Lewis is not in the same league as Williams defensivly, not even close.

Our defense was very instrumental in getting us to the playoffs. But the offense didn't just sit on its ass all season. There are still some kinks to work out (as with any team) but to still say that Gibbs' offense hasn't caught up to today's defenses is, well to be blunt, idiotic. It's so idiotic, it's Offissotic (that was mean I know, but damn funny if I may say so myself).


HMMMmm, so what do think happened to our offense our last 3 games?

How's the counter trey been working out?

I do beleive we set a record in futility against Tampa for offense for a winning team in the playoffs, Tampa is not the 85' bears are they?

When was the last time we saw an offense that fultile during Gibbs first tenure?

Your more than welcome to prove your point.

I guess when J. Jansen said last year we were running an outdated offense he had it all wrong.

The counter has been working fine, not sure what you've been watching offiss but we still run it quite regularly and with success. Thomas is one of the best pullers in the league.

Year Team G Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD
2005-06 St. Louis 14 102 1331 95.1 13.0 44 2.4 63 9 (Torry Holt)
2005-06 Seattle 13 67 778 59.8 11.6 56 4.1 43 3 (Bobby Engram)
2005-06 Arizona 16 103 1409 88.1 13.7 47 3.7 67 10 (Larry Fitzgerald)
2005-06 San Diego 16 57 725 45.3 12.7 49 3.0 35 3 (Eric Parker)
2005-06 Oakland 16 76 942 58.9 12.4 49 3.4 45 5 (Jerry Porter)
2005-06 New Orleans 16 70 945 59.1 13.5 43 3.8 50 7 (Donte Stallworth)
2005-06 Indianapolis 16 83 1055 65.9 12.7 66 3.8 54 5 (Reggie Wayne)
2005-06 Houston 16 55 492 30.8 8.9 29 2.3 31 2 (Jabbar Gaffney)
2005-06 Cincinnati 14 78 956 68.3 12.3 43 4.1 52 7 (TJ Houshmanzadeh)
2005-06 NY Giants 16 60 684 42.8 11.4 37 2.7 37 7 (Amani Toomer)
2005-06 New England 13 59 738 56.8 12.5 40 3.9 32 2 (David Givens)


Someone asked what I expected from a #2. Here is a sample (somewhat random) of #2s (who played an entire season or nearly so) from top of the league to bottom and their outputs. Nearly all of them had better numbers than our current #2 was on pace to get. I expect around 60-70 catches from each of the X and Y receivers (spread the wealth from Santana a bit to save his body) and another 50-60 each from the Z and H-Back positions. And for an average 300 completion season, that leaves about 60 more receptions to be spread around with TEs, FBs, and RBs--a balanced attack at all levels of the field, NOT a true vertical game. We need a receiver who can give us that 60 catch season with 800-900 yards. Cooley filled that role this season very well, but he's still an overperforming H-Back. What I expect is a solid receiver who is as feared as the #1 (or nearly so), but doesn't have a hang-up about being "THE Man".

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20060117-115943-8513r.htm

HMMMmm, so what do think happened to our offense our last 3 games?

How's the counter trey been working out?

I do beleive we set a record in futility against Tampa for offense for a winning team in the playoffs, Tampa is not the 85' bears are they?

When was the last time we saw an offense that fultile during Gibbs first tenure?

Your more than welcome to prove your point.

I guess when J. Jansen said last year we were running an outdated offense he had it all wrong.

Counter trey's been working out fine, suffered a bit when Randy Thomas went down though.

We scored over 30 points in a game five different times this season. Something I believe we've only done once in the past decade.

As for Jansen's comments. First off, they were taken before this season. To say the offense hasn't improved from 2004 to 2005 and can't compete with today's defenses is ridiculous. And secondly, he said he thought we were running a 1992 offense. Which is kind of funny, since in 1992 we won the Super Bowl.

We definitely need a threat at #2, but I'm against going out and finding a free agent to fill that void. I thought we filled that last year with David Patten, and that kind of knee jerk reaction is typical of what we've done in past years. We need to find a way to get other guys the ball, but just finding another wideout is not the answer. We've got to stop trying to find the quick fix, and while I'm definitely for bringing in a big, physical wideout to balance out our offense I don't see why Taylor Jacobs can't be molded to fit that. I know he's been snakebitten by injuries every year he's been with us, but I'd much rather see us go after a pass rushing defensive end who help get us into blitzing situations than to bring in yet another wideout who will most certainly damage our cap situation and still may not help in the long run. Let's run the guys we've got instead of pining away over someone who may not even be the answer.

It's mainly because Taylor Jacobs is a pansy that lacks killer instinct. I was all for giving him his chance and he blow ALL of them. Time to cut our losses and find someone in FA or the draft.