Brunell vs. Bledsoe

That's true. If you're going to compare it would be something like 3 consecutive incompletions to 1 interception. Either way results most likely in a change of posession.

Right, but with the 3 incompletions and punt, at least you're advancing the ball 40 yards down the field with a punt. With an INT you hand the ball over on the spot.

Schneed10

I'm not missing that. Go back to post #22 where I clearly state what the cause is for Bledsoe's higher INTs and Sacks compared to Brunell.

You didn't confuse cause and effect in Post 22. You confused it in offering that list correlating winning with the turnover ratio.

At some point you're going to have to acknowledge that stats, when analyzed correctly, tell the tale.


All it will take is a convincing argument.

You seem to eschew stats in favor of football analysis. It seems to be plain as day to me what the cause is for all of Bledsoe's sacks.

There are multiple causes for sacks, interceptions, or any stat you have. But in order to measure individual performance, we have to isolate those somehow. Since that can't be done, the stats are almost useless.

I said almost.

The chief value I see for them is to aggravate the hell out of your debate opponents since one can prove any position, no matter how dumb, with a few selected stats.

Right, but with the 3 incompletions and punt, at least you're advancing the ball 40 yards down the field with a punt. With an INT you hand the ball over on the spot.

Oh definitely. I was saying that if you're going to compare.

An interception is still a turnover and a turnover is never good. If Martz shrugs it off it is probably why he is no longer a head coach. That is what seperates Martz from Bill Walsh and Joe Gibbs who hate turnovers and will replace players before putting up with turnovers. They do not accept turnovers. Joe Montana and Steve Young played in mainly passing offenses very similar to Mart's and they had low interception to TD ratios.

I have always thought that J.Gibbs went overboard treating turnovers as though they were a cardinal sin. Then, after the Giants' 36 - 0 loss, a reporter asked him about turnovers...and for the first time since 1981, I heard Joe patiently explain that turnovers are often caused by simply being outplayed (which is what I'm saying here).

A players production and his mistakes have to be weighed together...production on one side of the scale, mistakes on the other.

I disagree - interceptions aren't only momentum/drive killers but they also change possession of the ball immediately - incompletions do not.
At least you have the option of punting with an incompletion.

You are comparing one interception to one incompletion. You might disagree if I was doing that in my remarks, but since I didn't..you're disagreeing with something I never said.

12th Man



You have a measure of the overall effectiveness of the QB when combined with his support system: players, coaches, system.

It's like being told that the length + height + width of a room totals 56 feet. There is no useful purpose for that number. But, in this case, we all know a little about the length, width, and height. Also, if you have enough of a sample, (Brunnels overall historical stats) you can start to piece together a more complete picture. These stats do tell us something more than you are admitting. Based on you r reasoning we also can't draw any conclusions about how good Moss was last year based on his stats because we would have to say it was based on the QB, playcalling, blocking, teams played... Brunnel got the QB job last year because he was willing to protect the football.

You are comparing one interception to one incompletion. You might disagree if I was doing that in my remarks, but since I didn't..you're disagreeing with something I never said.

No, you didn't say it verbatim. But the spirit of what you're saying is pretty much what I stated and disagreed with.

huddle, your arguement that stats are almost useless is about as crazy as the CFL/NFL "debate (debacle)" we had here.

And this point is just absurd. What would you rather have, complete pass or incomplete pass? What would you rather have, complete pass or interception? Duh.

The real point is I'd rather have an incompletion over an INT any day. So give me a game-managing QB any day of the week over a gunslinger who tends to force plays to happen.


Are you getting desperate here? You're making a strawman argument since nothing in what I wrote might be interpreted to mean that I was comparing incompletions to interceptions on a one-to-one basis.

I would prefer to know how many points the gunslinger and the game manager put on the board and how many they give up due to mistakes before I'd pick one over the other.

huddle, your arguement that stats are almost useless is about as crazy as the CFL/NFL "debate (debacle)" we had here.

You have an opinion but no arguments to offer?