Jesus Camp:

I'm sorry but you can't equate science and faith. Science deals in theories and a set of principles aimed at proving or disproving a theory. Observable and measurable tests are conducted. We have made progress with science, I can't say the same about faith.

First let me say this, faith and science are, fundementally, not at odds. In fact, fundamentally they are similar, each seeks answers to questions. In fact, the thing that initially sparked my interest into the religion I finally joined, after a lenghty period of atheism, was a sign that said "Christ came to take away our sins, not our minds".

As for science, yup, advancements have occurred. But, for all our advancements, there are many things accepted by faith within the scientific community (often euphamisticly termed "assumptions") which in turn form the basis for or fill in the gaps of scientific theories.

The significant difference between science and religion is that religion, faith, and spirituality seek answers to questions that have no timeless "right" answer and they, inevitably, can only provide guidance in how to question and search for answers applicable to us individually, on daily terms and in our daily lives.

When science comes up with the answer to how we should best love our enemy, let me know.

We have made progress with science, I can't say the same about faith.

It is clear that you cannot say the same b/c it is fairly apparent that you haven't done much in the way of examining "the state of faith" through the ages. As one who has as least done some examination of the matter, I would suggest to you that it is, in most of the established religions, significantly different than where it was even four or five hundred years ago.

And to finish this thread and make belivers out of you all...

http://decalhaven.com/catalog/images/25326.jpg

p.s. Once you overcome your fear of going to hell it's pretty easy to be objective in matters concerning religion and see it for what it is. You just have to overcome that conditioning you went through as a child first.

That sounds very paternalistic to me ("if we only were so enlightened and not blinded by our fear we would see the world in an objective manner"). Again, I'm not religious, but I don't buy the argument that people are religious purely out of fear. You're saying that literally billions of people from all walks of life and who belong to thousands of different religious groups are religious for the same exact reason. That is not only paternalistic, but is in incredibly simplistic.

My little brain hurts from trying to comprehend what you're trying to say. Please elaborate.Essentially, it is to say that all evidence of the age of the world, I.E. fossil, radiometric dating, and all other types, rely on an assumption that the universe was not intelligently created. For if it was, and bear with me, there are an infinate number of possible explinations to how that stuff came to be. Because of the infinate number of possibilities, that stuff has little meaning in terms of evidence.

It's reasonable to believe that the universe wasn't intelligently created, IMO, but only under the pretense that we do not have the answers currently. Science may very well make many more advances, but probably will never decide for or against faith. In fact, thats what faith is: the belief in the less than certain (Theory of Evolution for example). If it were cut and dry and clear, everybody would do it.

C'mon, we know from you're previous posts that you are way smarter than this. Don't let your arrogance and pride let your argument get out of hand.

Essentially, it is to say that all evidence of the age of the world, I.E. fossil, radiometric dating, and all other types, rely on an assumption that the universe was not intelligently created. For if it was, and bear with me, there are an infinate number of possible explinations to how that stuff came to be. Because of the infinate number of possibilities, that stuff has little meaning in terms of evidence.

It's reasonable to believe that the universe wasn't intelligently created, IMO, but only under the pretense that we do not have the answers currently. Science may very well make many more advances, but probably will never decide for or against faith. In fact, thats what faith is: the belief in the less than certain (Theory of Evolution for example). If it were cut and dry and clear, everybody would do it.

C'mon, we know from you're previous posts that you are way smarter than this. Don't let your arrogance and pride let your argument get out of hand.


Look, as I have said before there may very well be an all powerful entity that created us, the universe, and everything else we don't know about. Having said that I call b.s. on the Bible, the Quran, and the Torah (all 3 are based on each other). I call b.s. on Jesus, Mohamed, and Moses. I call b.s. on all the the far fetched stories. I call b.s. on the contradictions, lack of civility and humanism. I call b.s. on the fact that all of these holy men were born and raised in the middle east. Where are the Chinese born prophets? How about the fact that so many prophet are related? It feels like a family business.

This is what I have come to the conclusion of after much thought and struggle. It's not popular with believers but that's alright. This is about me what I believe.

p.s. I want to know who in here has no fear of hell? Fear of hell and the desire to go to heaven are integral part of most religion. After all you can't chill with Jesus/God and drink Pina Colada if you aren't in heaven.

p.p.s. We may disagree but I got nothing but love for you lot.

-Peace

You're calling a lot of b.s tonight aren't you Saden?

Is this going to become like the "F..." threads? Now we'll have the "I Call B.S. On..."

Look, as I have said before there may very well be an all powerful entity that created us, the universe, and everything else we don't know about. Having said that I call b.s. on the Bible, the Quran, and the Torah (all 3 are based on each other). I call b.s. on Jesus, Mohamed, and Moses. I call b.s. on all the the far fetched stories. I call b.s. on the contradictions, lack of civility and humanism. I call b.s. on the fact that all of these holy men were born and raised in the middle east. Where are the Chinese born prophets? How about the fact that so many prophet are related? It feels like a family business.

This is what I have come to the conclusion of after much thought and struggle. It's not popular with believers but that's alright.

p.s. I want to know who in here has no fear of hell? Fear of hell and the desire to go to heaven are integral part of most religion. After all you can't chill with Jesus/God and drink Pina Colada if you aren't in heaven.

p.p.s. We may disagree but I got nothing but love for you lot.

-Peace

I am probably going to regret this, but I feel compelled to ask; what contradictions?

I am probably going to regret this, but I feel compelled to ask; what contradictions?


A List Of Biblical Contradictions (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html)

You're calling a lot of b.s tonight aren't you Saden?

Is this going to become like the "F..." threads? Now we'll have the "I Call B.S. On..."


I don't know, I call it how I see it?

A List Of Biblical Contradictions (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html)

I am not going to argue this point with you, but here is some food for thought. If you take bits and pieces of any manuscript and pull them out of context you will have a much different picture than the one that is actually being presented in the writing. In all of those references you need to read the whole passage in order to understand what is actually being said. The only way to understand the Bible in it's entirety is to read the whole thing yourself. I am confident that if you were to read it all for yourself, you would have a much different point of view. I am not saying that you should, and I am not going to stop talking to you if you don't.

I do not believe in trying force what I believe to be true down other peoples throat, nor do I wish to debate with you on this topic. I am just trying to provide a little bit of what I believe to be insight on the matter. Have a nice evening.