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Lady Brave 09-09-2007, 11:51 PM I apologize that my comments seems to turn this into a does God exist debate. What it is, is a thread about someone that has lost his faith in prayer and is very discouraged. I am having a lot of trouble with prayer, and I have mentioned why.
So why would God (assuming you are correct with the oil) give your mom oil, but someone like myself, who goes to church every Sunday, follows his word, acts like He wants us to act, allows me to go through 17 years of abuse, child's death with no ability to have a child, and unemployment even though I am busting my ass to make this work?
The only way I can answer that question is that God's timing is not our timing or maybe He has allowed you to go through those things so that you might be able to help others who are going through a similiar situation.
jsarno 09-10-2007, 12:10 AM Where in the bible does it say God doesn't perform miracles like that? The bible is full of them. The feeding of the five thousand comes to mind. Also, I don't remember God ever saying He would stop performing miracles. As one who considers himself a christian, do you think Jesus was a magician?
You're talking old testament. Why does God not talk to us (where we can actually audibly hear Him), why do we eat pig, why do we not sacrifice anymore? It's all old testament stuff that was erased by the new testament.
I never once said he would stop performing miracles, I said (basically) he doesn't go "poof" and create things. He uses our hands.
I apologize that I can not find the specific verses I am referring to. I know they are there somewhere, I will find them tomorrow if I remember.
Ok... to clarify how my mom knew the tank was almost empty, she took a very long wooden pole and stuck it in our underground tank. We didn't have a meter and this is how she measured how much oil she had. She had it down to a science on how long it would last. When she pulled it out there was only two inches showing at the bottom of the pole.
So if that is true, why would he allow the oil to magically appear for you, but has allowed several Christian people to freeze to death when blizzards hit the northeast, and the Chicago area a few years back?
I'm sorry, but I don't see God performing "magic" like that.
saden1 09-10-2007, 12:11 AM Slight problem with your comments...this comes from bible.com:
Mark 11:24 (Whole Chapter)
"Therefore I say to you, [Matt 7:7] all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.
Isn't that what The Secret by Rhonda Byrne (http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Rhonda-Byrne/dp/1582701709) all about?
jsarno 09-10-2007, 12:20 AM The Widow of Zarephath
Verse 8
BibleGateway.com - Passage*Lookup: 1 Kings 17 ; (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%2017%20;&version=50);
Thanks for the link. Funny, I don't recall the oil part, just the part where Elijah prayed to save the boy's life.
Not to sound negative, but when was the last time you heard about someone being dead, then someone praying over them and that person coming back to life? It doesn't happen. Don't you ask youself why it hasn't happened? Or why God hasn't shared a cup of tea with you and your mother at the living room table?
jsarno 09-10-2007, 12:22 AM Isn't that what The Secret by Rhonda Byrne (http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Rhonda-Byrne/dp/1582701709) all about?
Actually yes, and there are many connections from the bible to "the secret".
Coincidentally, I have lost faith in "the secret" too. I stayed amazingly positive and it seemed worse and worse things kept happening to me. Felt a little like Job. (pronounced jobe, not job)
jsarno 09-10-2007, 12:23 AM LB, I do not mean to offend you. I am just very very frustrated. I keep hearing something like "He knows best", and trust Him, and while I certainly did, I have been led down a dead end. He had to have known I would have lost my faith in prayer had he ignored my prayers.
SmootSmack 09-10-2007, 12:26 AM LB, I do not mean to offend you. I am just very very frustrated. I keep hearing something like "He knows best", and trust Him, and while I certainly did, I have been led down a dead end. He had to have known I would have lost my faith in prayer had he ignored my prayers.
I understand your frustration. But I guess I have to ask then why did you start this thread? If people give you examples of when they believe prayer worked for them, and your response is just "Well good for you, but it hasn't for me." Then what were you hoping to get out of this thread?
jsarno 09-10-2007, 12:35 AM I understand your frustration. But I guess I have to ask then why did you start this thread? If people give you examples of when they believe prayer worked for them, and your response is just "Well good for you, but it hasn't for me." Then what were you hoping to get out of this thread?
Well, it's not people, it's LB that has provided an example, and knowing how God works, I am unsure if her recollection is correct.
But you are right. I should have not have questioned it. Fact is, I am seeking examples cause I need to know that prayer does indeed work, cause if it doesn't, then who is to say the entire bible is false too? If prayer is a crock, then it's not impossible to make the leap that the entire bible is a crock. If they can lie about one situation, they can lie about anything and everywhere.
I am seeking answers, and LB was the only one trying to truely supply answers.
I am a lost soul right now and in need of help.
Lady Brave 09-10-2007, 12:41 AM You're talking old testament. Why does God not talk to us (where we can actually audibly hear Him), why do we eat pig, why do we not sacrifice anymore? It's all old testament stuff that was erased by the new testament.
I never once said he would stop performing miracles, I said (basically) he doesn't go "poof" and create things. He uses our hands.
I apologize that I can not find the specific verses I am referring to. I know they are there somewhere, I will find them tomorrow if I remember.
I'm not speaking about the old testament. I also asked you if you thought Jesus was a magician. He performed numerous miracles of creating something out of nothing (water into wine, the five loaves and two fishes, etc.) What about Paul, Peter, and the other disciples? They performed miracles as well.
So if that is true, why would he allow the oil to magically appear for you, but has allowed several Christian people to freeze to death when blizzards hit the northeast, and the Chicago area a few years back?
I'm sorry, but I don't see God performing "magic" like that.
You're asking me to explain God's will for other people's lives. I won't try to do that other than to say maybe it was their time to go. No one is promised tomorrow.
You asked if prayer works and I tried to give an example of prayer working for me to offer encouragement to you. I'm not sure what else to say. When I look back over my life, there are numerous prayers I've prayed that I'm glad God didn't grant me because in the long run they weren't in my best interest. When I'm going through a hard time the scripture that I cling to is this... "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."
I hope you find what you're looking for jsarno and through all of this your faith will be strengthened.
Lady Brave 09-10-2007, 12:47 AM LB, I do not mean to offend you. I am just very very frustrated. I keep hearing something like "He knows best", and trust Him, and while I certainly did, I have been led down a dead end. He had to have known I would have lost my faith in prayer had he ignored my prayers.
I'm not offended. I've been where you are and there are prayers I have prayed for years that have yet to answered. It's ok to question God. It's also ok to be frustrated and angry with Him at times.
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