Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...

I'm well aware that the poverty line and minimum wage are 2 different things but in the grand scheme of things does it really matter? Point is you have people out there that can barely support themselves, even on $10 an hour. I think there are plenty of great workers out there making shit money, just as there are plenty of people out there who are shit workers making great money.

I disagree that there are plenty of great workers making shit money. If they are great, they are moved up. I suppose they have to start somewhere, so maybe if they are new to the company, then I can see your point. But hard workers are hard to come by, so when they are found, they are advanced.
I absolutely agree that there are shit workers making great money. I also agree that is difficult for some to support themselves on $10 an hour. That's why I moved from Boston to Carlsbad, NM. Boston costs too much to live and I knew I'd be in a constant battle to make enough money to live. Boston is one of the highest costs of living in the country, and I loved it there, but I made the decision to leave.
If you live in DC or Boston, and you make $10/hr, you're not going to make it. That's why you PLAN AHEAD! Leave the area, get a degree...whatever it takes to live comfortable for life. I have retirement plans, most my age don't cause they don't plan ahead...is this my problem...nope.
I also find it interesting that people will be making $7 an hour and keep plopping out babies. If you can't support yourself, learn how not to create more financial issues.

It all comes down to self responsibility. We can go around and around with other issues, but it all comes down to self responsibility.

It all comes down to self responsibility. We can go around and around with other issues, but it all comes down to self responsibility.

This I agree with 100%.

We seem to be going back and forth, but I think what's getting lost is that public welfare programs should take care of nothing more than a person's needs, that's it. If you're actually arguing that the government should provide people with anything more than shelter, water, food, heat, and healthcare, then for god's sakes go start your own communist country, because that's what you're advocating. If you can afford anything beyond those basic needs, then you don't need the help. The taxpayers should not be subsidizing your XBox, your plasma TV, or your new suit. Hardworking people earn their money; they should be able to satisfy their own desires, and their children's desires before giving the poor anything beyond what they NEED.

To bring the discussion back on topic, the debate really is about one thing: is healthcare a need, or a luxury? My personal feelings are varied on the matter. For kids, it's a need. You can't expect them to afford it, and denying them care because their parents can't afford it would be like denying them a shot to grow up and afford healthcare on their own. For adults, only emergency care is a need. If you're hit by a bus, you should be given care (as hospitals do) whether you have coverage or not. As for preventative, elective, terminal, psychiatric, rehabilitation, and pain management, I view all of these forms of treatment as luxuries, not needs. Therein lies the true debate - and it's virtually impossible to come to an agreement.

LOL...you obviously don't know what it takes to go to school at night and not live there.

I obviously do since I've done so.


save the money and go to cheaper college.
I have done it all man. I've lived at college (cost me $14k a semester), I've done night school (cost me 2k a semester), and I've done internet classes ($200 or so per class). You have preconceived notions of what college should be, and trust me, hundreds of thousands of older people are working full time and getting degrees at night.

You know absolutely nothing about my area, so don't say, "save money and go to a cheaper college." I went to the closest college I could commute to. It wasn't me choosing the best, most expensive college. It was me choosing the closest one that offered a bachelors degree in my career of study. You are also assuming I know nothing about working and going to college at the same time. I have worked six and seven day weeks while being a full time student AND maintaining my spot on the Dean's list. Just because things were/are cheaper in your area doesn't mean this is so everywhere else.


I don't know what expensive college you are going to, but when I went to Harding University (14k a semester) I bought all my used books at around $20-$65 a book max. Also, there are ways to buy it from college students for even cheaper. You have to be willing to look. One semester I bought all my books from a couple students and spent maybe $100. Rough.
So again, I ask, if someone took care of your tuition, you couldn't find a way to pay for books? Give me a break man.

Who are you to say I didn't do this? Because I had to pay more for my textbooks than you did doesn't mean I wasn't willing to look. Please don't get a self-righteous attitude that everybody else is lazy and unwilling to help themselves.

And anyway, all that wasn't even my point on college. My point is, free tuition programs are great if you can qualify, but tuition is just a part of the cost of college.

To bring the discussion back on topic, the debate really is about one thing: is healthcare a need, or a luxury? My personal feelings are varied on the matter. For kids, it's a need. You can't expect them to afford it, and denying them care because their parents can't afford it would be like denying them a shot to grow up and afford healthcare on their own. For adults, only emergency care is a need. If you're hit by a bus, you should be given care (as hospitals do) whether you have coverage or not. As for preventative, elective, terminal, psychiatric, rehabilitation, and pain management, I view all of these forms of treatment as luxuries, not needs. Therein lies the true debate - and it's virtually impossible to come to an agreement.

Yeah, I'd have a hard time believing that insulin shots for diabetics would be a luxury item.

I called my buddy and asked him about that program, and he couldn't remember the name but said it was through the department of labor. He said his wife went and got her nursing degree...they paid for the college and paid around $150 a month too.
I'm going to call the DOL tomorrow to get the name of the program.

edited out.

FYI, I texted my friend that goes to NMSU (she does pay tuition) and I asked her how much she pays in non tuition per semester and she says $200 to $300 depending on the classes.
Sure it's not your area, but don't tell me it can't be done.

Yeah I don't really get this whole debate over college costs, seems out of place in this thread. But fees, books, and related costs are nothing in the grand scheme. You're talking about a couple thousand dollars over the course of four years, compared to crazy tuition bills, that's squadoosh.

But whatever, stuff costs what it costs. If you thought it wasn't worth it, you wouldn't pay it.

Yeah, I'd have a hard time believing that insulin shots for diabetics would be a luxury item.

You're right, I'd call that a "need" too. Healthcare is so complicated, there are a lot of grey areas that you can't cover with blanket statements like the one I made classifying certain things as needs and others as luxuries.

That complexity is actually one of the reasons that healthcare is so expensive these days. It takes a lot of brains just to sort through all this stuff, and those brains have to be paid.

Whatever dude...again I say, if your tuition is paid for don't you think you'd find a way to pay for the SMALL other costs????
You can argue all those other things all you want, but there is also online college like university of phoenix. You're acting as if going to college costs you a million dollars, but in fact, if you commute, and you have tuition paid for, there is no excuse not to go and the cost is easy to afford for anyone that has a job. That is not debatable for as much as you would like to debate it. Your main argument was room and board, but I have said a slew of times to commute and go at night. So even at your standards, 5 classes times $60 a book, that's $300...another $200 (rip off) for whatever you called it, and you're at $500. So you feel the need to spread the word that tuition isn't all of it, even though it's around 95%-97% or more of it?????? Yeah, good argument. Might as well tell everyone to keep doing what they are doing cause there is no hope. :rolleyes:

Where did I say my tuition was paid for? I certainly never said that. In fact, I'm still paying on it. Secondly, you're the one who said there were programs out there that paid for your college in full. And I'm simply stating that there are other fees that go along with funding college other than tuition. That isn't up for debate. That is fact.