WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?

Ok, lets not start calling people stupid, because that in and of itself reeks of ignorance. Calling people "stupid" when there is a legitimate debate about ideas effectively ends thoughtful debate and then the namecalling begins. This happens all the time in politics, but Im not going to say which side does that more in this forum.

Shapiro's point is that the basic coaching/front office flaws he saw in Gibbs first year back are still present today. He therefore believes that the very best this team can do this year is 7-9 or maybe even 8-8. The authors point is that 3 and 1/2 years into Gibbs second era, it was painfully obvious at the NE game that this franchise is no where close to becoming one of the great teams in the NFL. The leadership, in the author's opinion, has failed and it has been given plenty of time to turn this thing around. I would agree, that even if we somehow made the playoffs this year in the pathetic NFC, this team as a whole simply is not moving in the right direction.

I beg to differ, 3.5 years is not enough to turn it around. I don't think that was his point anyway. I think he said that Gibbs doesn't exhibit the same command of the game as a head coach, most notably in his game decisions. I agree w/him on that more than anything.

Gibbs arguably did "turn it around" in 05. He has had to deal w/the mess of spurrier & the signings of that era. He didn't handle some things well in learning the cap, but appears better despite bad moves like loyd.

I certainly feel the franchise is heading in the right direction. Young talented qb, numerous youngsters on D, and some decent playmakers. We have needs of course, but IF this team gets healthy at the right time, we can make a run. I don't understand how you would consider it not moving in the right direction if we make the playoffs this year. That would be 2 times in 4 years. Between Gibbs I & II (93-03), we'd been to the playoffs once (99-00).

Ok, lets not start calling people stupid, because that in and of itself reeks of ignorance. Calling people "stupid" when there is a legitimate debate about ideas effectively ends thoughtful debate and then the namecalling begins. This happens all the time in politics, but Im not going to say which side does that more in this forum.

Shapiro's point is that the basic coaching/front office flaws he saw in Gibbs first year back are still present today. He therefore believes that the very best this team can do this year is 7-9 or maybe even 8-8. The authors point is that 3 and 1/2 years into Gibbs second era, it was painfully obvious at the NE game that this franchise is no where close to becoming one of the great teams in the NFL. The leadership, in the author's opinion, has failed and it has been given plenty of time to turn this thing around. I would agree, that even if we somehow made the playoffs this year in the pathetic NFC, this team as a whole simply is not moving in the right direction.

Wait a sec, he wasn't calling any one individual stupid.

Freddy, regardless of what you feel is a decent amount of time to turn it around, few head coaches in the NFL more than four years to make their team a contender. It's the way of the NFL now for better or worse.

How about Darren Howard and Jevon Kearse? The Eagles fans are about to lynch Kearse, Bang cartoons made a skit about Kearse being a bust, and Howard can't crack the starting lineup. Or how about the 49ers free agent spending spree? How is that working out?

If you create a list of all Redskins free agents since 2001 who got $5M+ in bonus money, our track record is suprisingly good. As for draft picks, the results have been mixed and we've given too many away. But, I don't think the media's perception (i.e., conventional wisdom) of the Redskins front office is exactly 20/20. In discussing the Redskins moves they still talk about 2000. We made some boneheaded moves in 2000, but that was 7 years ago. I had a b----h of a girlfriend 7 years ago, but I've let that go. Apparently, the media has some sort of love/hate affair with us.....they just can't let stuff go.

Agreed that the media still thinks about the FA's of 2000 when talking about the skins...that's unfair. I will point out that that we made AA one of the highest, if not the highest paid safety in the league. I don't know too much about the Kearse signing, but at the time he was top 5 pass rushers in the NFL. Due to injuries his play has diminished. Hindsight would say it's a bad signing but at the time there were alot of teams bidding for his services.

I don't know of too many high paid recievers like B lloyd that only have had 3 or 4 catches for their new team. I can't think of any.

I would argue that the contract extensions at the end of the 2006 season (Sellers and Betts), plus Cooley's recent extension demonstrate that Gibbs and the FO are FINALLY starting to get it from a personnel perspective. Keeping a core group together is a huge key to success in the NFL. As for newer guys, who would argue against the 2007 free agent signings of London Fletcher and Fred Smoot? Even the Pete Kendall trade was a solid one for us. If the FO can address the O-line and perhaps add a pass rushing DE in the draft, we have the makings of a very solid contender for 2008.

Welcome to the site Green1. But, what you suggest is really what has made Gibbs so predictable. 50 Gut, Counter Trey, etc., etc. worked well back in the 80's, but I don't truly believe he's had near as much success running those type formations in his second round.

Those plays work to get the skins to the playoffs in 2004. Why not now? If Gibbs walks away why not let him do it his way with control of the offense, and if he can't get to the playoffs then he should walk away. Football is football from the 1980's until now the only difference is the speed and size of the players. Its still executing the plays correctly and being able to block and tackle. You guys are trying to make it so complex and its not. The plays then and and now are basicially the same the only thing different is the formations. Check out the west coast offense. An 1980's offense but almost all of the teams in the NFL run it. Joe Gibbs offense will work with people that can execute it.

I think our problem is we're used to free agents being able to make an immediate impact.
If the FO can address the O-line and perhaps add a pass rushing DE in the draft, we have the makings of a very solid contender for 2008.

While I don't deny what you're saying here (although I think we need a WR too) I think the logic is flawed. We draft rookies, and expect them to come in and be solid starters. As we see, it often takes players a while to develop. Part of building through the draft is being patient with the players that come through. The hate I've seen for Carlos Rogers playing arguable one of the 3 hardest positions in football, has amazed me. It made me realize why we go after free agency, no one wants to let these players develop. If the biggest gripe someone as about a corner back is their hands, I feel they've done a pretty damn good job, especially since it was his 2nd season.

Freddy, regardless of what you feel is a decent amount of time to turn it around, few head coaches in the NFL more than four years to make their team a contender. It's the way of the NFL now for better or worse.

point taken, however no team in the nfl has quite the mess that Synder created. When the CBA was about to expire in 06 we were in serious trouble given the dead cap space we had. That's why I think that Gibbs should be evaluated relative to the task he's faced.

That said, Gibbs has done a good job of building for the future IMO & I think this team could be a contender next year. I agree w/Shapiro's assessment of his clock mgmt. & overall game day performance. Gibbs doesn't have the edge he once had, but it might be a matter of him getting it back each year. His teams have developed a pattern the last 3 years of regressing towards the middle of the year, then needing a return to "redskins football" to finish the year strong. This is the 3rd year in a row we've heard the same thing (interesting to note that Gibbs did this in 05 w/out Saunders around) at about the same time.

It may be that Gibbs himself needs that much time into the season to put his foot down. I don't care so long as he can get the team to finish strong, but I'll also admit it's a pattern that can't go on every year.

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While I don't deny what you're saying here (although I think we need a WR too) I think the logic is flawed. We draft rookies, and expect them to come in and be solid starters. As we see, it often takes players a while to develop. Part of building through the draft is being patient with the players that come through. The hate I've seen for Carlos Rogers playing arguable one of the 3 hardest positions in football, has amazed me. It made me realize why we go after free agency, no one wants to let these players develop. If the biggest gripe someone as about a corner back is their hands, I feel they've done a pretty damn good job, especially since it was his 2nd season.I'd argue that we've done quite well with our first day draft picks, and they have all become solid starters. I have been a Carlos Rogers defender this season - he was playing well prior to his injury. Other day 1 selections are also starters and doing quite well (Campbell, Taylor, McIntosh, Cooley, and Landry). 2nd day picks Golston and Montgomery have also contributed, while Blades certainly looks like a keeper. I am fine with the FO's recent draft record. I would definitely like to see us do a better job of retaining our picks for future drafts, which seems to be the case after getting burned on Lloyd and Duckett. In a nutshell, I think that Gibbs and the FO finally understand that establishing a stable core is key, and being selective in FA (i.e. Fletcher, Smoot) and drafting well are equally important. A few more offseasons like 2007 will produce a consistent contender IMO.

While I don't deny what you're saying here (although I think we need a WR too) I think the logic is flawed. We draft rookies, and expect them to come in and be solid starters. As we see, it often takes players a while to develop. Part of building through the draft is being patient with the players that come through. The hate I've seen for Carlos Rogers playing arguable one of the 3 hardest positions in football, has amazed me. It made me realize why we go after free agency, no one wants to let these players develop. If the biggest gripe someone as about a corner back is their hands, I feel they've done a pretty damn good job, especially since it was his 2nd season.Good point.

Very few draft picks can do anything more than fill a gap in their first season, and those who do tend to be great, albeit few and far between.

We should now be starting to see the return on our 2004 and 2005 drafts. Our first pick in 2005 just went out for the year with a knee injury, so that leaves Taylor, Cooley, and Campbell.

Those three have progressed pretty well to date, but we simply didn't put enough youth in the system to run with it.