russia/ georgia

Does anyone even know how this war got started?

I believe the Georgians cracked down on separatist rebels allied with Russia. It's questionable as to whether the Georgians were "in the right," but it's almost unquestionable that the Russians are "in the wrong."

Saden, what up. Were are you getting your news from today? Does anyone even know how this war got started? Even the French are backing Bush and his humanitarian efforts. Well maybe, I don't know that for sure but it did sound good. I know Bush did talk to the French (what ever that guys name is). I think Bush even called Obama to see if he wanted to fly over to Georgian to just tell the guys to all get along.

Here's the back story (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/weekinreview/10traub.html?_r=1&oref=slogin). The Georgina president's rhetoric is surpassed only by his imagined allies and capabilities. No one in the west gives a rats ass about his two bit nation and no one will certainly lift a finger on their behalf to oppose Russia. The cold war maybe over and Russia isn't what it use to be but Russia is not a nation to trifler with. Not only that but they have as much claim to the disputed region as Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia). Also, as much as they would like you to believe Georgia isn't a democracy.

CIA Factbook (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gg.html):

...An attempt by the incumbent Georgian government to manipulate national legislative elections in November 2003 touched off widespread protests that led to the resignation of Eduard SHEVARDNADZE, president since 1995. New elections in early 2004 swept Mikheil SAAKASHVILI into power along with his National Movement party. Progress on market reforms and democratization has been made in the years since independence, but this progress has been complicated by two ethnic conflicts in the breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. These two territories remain outside the control of the central government and are ruled by de facto, unrecognized governments, supported by Russia. Russian-led peacekeeping operations continue in both regions.

rumors the russians gave the south ossetian seperatists mortars (russian peacekeepers supplying "terrorists" with weapons) and told them to fire them... also rumors russia might be looking to capture the georgian pipeline access to europe or their port (for future military use, since the ukraine is kicking them out of their port base in a couple years).

just saying, it took months to build up those armored divisions on the border. this was planned.

as far as the draft and ordering soldiers, wtf are you smoking? i seriously doubt we're looking for armed conflict with russia proper. please put the pipe down.

Regardless of what the Russians are doing, South Ossetians are rejecting Georgian advances for reunification. Get a clue, they don't to be part of your country! Rumor also has it that South Ossetia has oil. Facts have it that Russia already had troops there for "peace keeping."

You know, if Israel can do it, United States can do it, why not Russia? China? Anybody else for that matter? If you got the power flaunt it!

Regardless of what the Russians are doing, South Ossetians are rejecting Georgian advances for reunification. Get a clue, they don't to be part of your country! Rumor also has it that South Ossetia has oil. Facts have it that Russia already had troops there for "peace keeping."

You know, if Israel can do it, United States can do it, why not Russia? China? Anybody else for that matter? If you got the power flaunt it!

yeah, i was saying those "peacekeepers" that were already there pre-invasion may have given the seperatists weapons and instructed them to use them to provoke a georgian response and give russia a reason to start a tank stampede...

at this point it's sort of hard to tell what's been happening on the ground in exact detail though.

Regardless of what the Russians are doing, South Ossetians are rejecting Georgian advances for reunification. Get a clue, they don't to be part of your country! Rumor also has it that South Ossetia has oil. Facts have it that Russia already had troops there for "peace keeping."

You know, if Israel can do it, United States can do it, why not Russia? China? Anybody else for that matter? If you got the power flaunt it!

What an amazingly salient point. Why does this perspective constantly elude 99% of Americans?

yeah, i was saying those "peacekeepers" that were already there pre-invasion may have given the seperatists weapons and instructed them to use them to provoke a georgian response and give russia a reason to start a tank stampede...

at this point it's sort of hard to tell what's been happening on the ground in exact detail though.

You mean to tell me they set the whole thing up and went to war under false pretense?

What an amazingly salient point. Why does this perspective constantly elude 99% of Americans?

I think that concept eludes closer to 100% of Americans (and everyone else around the world for that matter). ;) Even those who champion the virtues of the UN want the U.S. to use its power unilaterally when the mood so strikes.

Take Kosovo and Bosnia as an example. For years, the left had talked about the need to work through international organizations to accomplish our foreign policy objectives because, after all, one day we would no longer be top dog. Then along came the breakup of Yugoslavia and some horrific crimes against humanity. The left wanted to take action but, alas, Russia threatened to veto any UN Security Council resolutions authorizing the use of force against their Serb allies. So what did the left do? They told the UN to go f' itself and bombed the Serbs without UN approval.

I don't mean to pick on the left. The right tends to care even less about the UN and international law.

I believe the Georgians cracked down on separatist rebels allied with Russia. It's questionable as to whether the Georgians were "in the right," but it's almost unquestionable that the Russians are "in the wrong."

It's a complex situation (as most of these situations are) involving multiple countries. To act as though this is just the US sending its military might into the region, and making some sort of connection between this and a draft is simply ignorant.

Given how important this issue is it's a shame that this thread was framed as an attack on Bush, who really is a very minor player in this fiasco.