Should The Government Bailout GM?

the whole thing needs to be restructured. a bail out would not solve their problems. The management structure is the issue... not the labor, but they continue to attack the labor, as if they cannot pay them and still be competitive.

Also, going chapter 11 won't mean they will cease to exist. They will close a few plants, but they've been doing that for years claiming they cannot remain competitive paying american labor rates (meanwhile companies like toyota are opening new plants in the us every couple of years) Without demanding a complete revamping of management I would not give them a dime.... but then if government starts controlling businesses in exchange for tbills we have something other than capitalism don't we?

American auto manufacturers have been taking this country for a ride for years, lobbying to just keep competition out or more expensive than their cars and not paying attention to what its customers want, and that is a quality product and great customer service. I've worked for GM, Ford, and Toyota and BY FAR toyota was the most concerned with these things.

also, i thought it was funny that all 3 CEOs took private jets (separate of course) on the 45 minute flight from detroit to DC... on an average cost of over $20k/flight, to beg congress for money because they're broke.
good post

that seems fair. the C.E.O' s that ran those companies into this financial mess walk away with their money, and lets penalize the every day workers. those union workers have already made a ton of concessions to try and right the ship. i think your looking at the wrong end of the issue

What concessions have the unions made?

I agree with you and its also a matter of defense. If we had to go to war who would make our tanks, jeeps, etc... to support our troops.

Boeing, Lockheed, Rolls Royce, etc. There are tons of companies that could take over those duties. Boeing and Rolls Royce already make huge amounts of vehicles for the government. I know it's shocking, but we could also stop sticking our nose in everyone elses business until we get our own country straight.

Blame everything on the unions...I have never bought an American car, if you're going to blame the unions might as well blame me as well. People act like the unions want to see these companies go out of business...like they're not willing to concede perks such as having union members flown on private jets (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/WallStreet/story?id=6285739&page=1).

Certainly the unions can do things better but lets not act like they're to blame for all that is ill in Detroit. When they're selling cars and making money everything is great, when they're not it's blame the union time. What's really killing these companies are 1) bad product, 2) health care costs, 3) the completion.

What concessions have the unions made?


This one (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14715890).

Blame everything on the unions...I have never bought an American car, if you're going to blame the unions might as well blame me as well. People act like the unions want to see these companies go out of business...like they're not willing to concede perks such as having union members flown on private jets (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/WallStreet/story?id=6285739&page=1).

Certainly the unions can do things better but lets not act like they're to blame for all that is ill in Detroit. When they're selling cars and making money everything is great, when they're not it's blame the union time. What's really killing these companies are 1) bad product, 2) health care costs, 3) the completion.
Certainly the unions are not the only ones to blame, but they have played a major part in this problem. A $ 25 per hour disparity from Detroit to competitors in labor costs are largely the unions doing. If you read the very bottom of the article you linked to one of the last paragraphs sums up the union's blame pretty good.

Health care costs outside of things negotiated by the union are not an issue, as Toyota, Honda etc. have the same health care overhead with their US plants. Product and competition play a large role, as well as incredible mismanagement and executive compensation that is way out of line. If I was in Congress and found out these CEOs came to beg for $ 25B but were stupid enough to fly in on $ 20K per flight private jets, I would pull the rug on any bail-out on that principle alone.

Restructure under bankruptcy and independent oversight (negotiated hopefully, if not court-appointed) seems like the best way out. $25B is just a band-aid on a severed artery IMO.

I've never said the unions where the total blame but they have driven the cost of American cars way up. Here is a quote from your link "That could be a big help for a company that spends upwards of $70 an hour on wages and benefits for janitors." Janitors making $70.00 an hour PLUS benifits. Thats just one example. Yes, the CEO's need to go if the federal gov gives them thes loan but that will not happen.

I've never said the unions where the total blame but they have driven the cost of American cars way up. Here is a quote from your link "That could be a big help for a company that spends upwards of $70 an hour on wages and benefits for janitors." Janitors making $70.00 an hour PLUS benifits. Thats just one example. Yes, the CEO's need to go if the federal gov gives them thes loan but that will not happen.

The way I read it - The janitors don't make 70.00/hour plus benefits - the cost to the company of salary, benefits, and taxes for a janitor is 70.00/hour. A 70/hour wage works out to roughly 140k a year salary. Pretty sure that's not the case.

Still, you figure that the actual wage is somewhere in the 30 - 40 bucks an hour. Damn good pay for a janitor.

The labor rates given to the UAW workers directly reflect the problem. If you think for one minute that the management is going to negotiate to overpay the grunts and take home only a fair amount of earnings for themselves you're crazy... And half those guys don't do anything to help the company.

The way I read it - The janitors don't make 70.00/hour plus benefits - the cost to the company of salary, benefits, and taxes for a janitor is 70.00/hour. A 70/hour wage works out to roughly 140k a year salary. Pretty sure that's not the case.

Still, you figure that the actual wage is somewhere in the 30 - 40 bucks an hour. Damn good pay for a janitor.

GM pays an average of $33 an hour, and those selfish other companies pay a mere $19 plus a host of benefits.

From the beginning article. That's $14 more an hour vs their competition per employee on average. That's one of the reasons.