Nuclear Weapons

I don't think the author assume anything. I think my next read will be The Fall of Japan by William Craig. Again, the bird colonel is a symbolic figure. The pressure on subordinates by upper management is real as evident by the whole Iraq WMD fiasco (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1597159,00.html).
I completely understand the symbolism of the "bird colonel", however this is the extreme "Rod Steiger in Mars Attacks" version of what could've happened. The more likely scenario is that the "bird colonel" would have taken all the information he was given and passed it along to his superiors for fear of getting reprimanded for not providing everything he had if something came out later.

Just a nit-picking point, and maybe this is something that they did "back in the day", or it's just me, but I've never heard anyone in the military, intel community, or associated with military call an O-6 a "bird colonel". The term used is "full-bird colonel" or "full-bird".

The Libby-Valerie Plame association doesn't hold any water with me in this discussion. As usual, we agree to disagree.

Very clever but I'm inquiring as to your claim that they claim "[the reason why we dropped the bomb] was to reduce our casualties and to end the war." An anonymous NSA author still have more creditability but might be due to your past transgressions against sensibility. Let's just say I am doubtful when it comes to everything.

My claim? :laughing-

I don't have anything to prove to you, as if you're an authority on anything. :laughing-

I'll bet that I'm not the only former serviceman on this blog who has been to that museum. Thousands of people have been there. If you don't believe me then get a plane ticket and fly there yourself.

Let me make it easy for you. When you first walk into the museum there will be a huge map of old Hiroshima in a circle with a big red ball over top of it. The big red ball is to show how far up the bomb exploded since it was an airburst weapon. Beyond that display you'll see stairs leading to the hall where they have hands and feet in jars. Before you go up the stairs there is a plague that states why we dropped the bomb. It's right next to a globe where they show which countries have nuclear weapons, how many, and what type they are.

I believe this (http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/frame/Virtual_e/visit_e/estPanel_2b.html)is a virtual shot of what Trample is speaking of.

I believe this (http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/frame/Virtual_e/visit_e/estPanel_2b.html)is a virtual shot of what Trample is speaking of.

Is that what you're speaking of TTE?

I believe this (http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/frame/Virtual_e/visit_e/estPanel_2b.html)is a virtual shot of what Trample is speaking of.

They've changed things around a bit. When I was there last they made no mention of Pearl Harbor, only that we were at war. Nor did they mention the God awful things they did to the Chinese, Koreans, and everyone else they got their hands on. I doubt they'll put that in their museum or change their school books either.

This museum is to persuade other nations to get rid of nuclear weapons. What the Japanese don't realize is the destructive power that the big table shows only makes tin pot despots salivate.

I don't think it's important anymore. Most of the people who posted on this thread have some common sense and I've more important things to do then to bang heads with Saden all day long.

I don't have anything to prove to you, as if you're an authority on anything. :laughing-



You're absolutely right, you have nothing to prove to me and I am free to be skeptical. Like you I don't claim to be the authority on anything.

Since we are being honest this is the language of children. Let's stay focused.

Is that what you're speaking of TTE?

Yes it is. That is the museum. Go fly there and take a look around. You'll like it because they agree with you about nuclear weapons. Oh, watch out for the Japanese Guardian Angels. They don't like Americans, regardless of race.

Brother saden1, don't get the whole "I'm glade as hell" thing all twisted. You see, like brother trample, I too have spent time over seas in the far East (Okinawa, and a little time in main land Japan). I have studied the Japanese culture and their people.

I guess that I don't have remind you that Japan dragged our reluctant asses into war with them when they attacked us at Pearl. You see before we were attacked, we were asked by our friends in Europe to save their beacon, because they were getting the crap kicked out of them by those same bad guys. Our so called political heros were too busy wringing their hands over the thought of going to war, and dealing with the menace of Japan, Germany, and Italy. These countries at the time were playing a game of world domination and genocide.

I also have read plenty of novels that cronicle our involvement in WWII. These novels are military, so you would probably not be interested. But, if you would ever like to get a different perspective, you should check some out. And when you do, you will learn how that those same people that started our involvement were vicious, cruel, and merciless, and yes racist killers.

The Japanese people were led by their Emperor, and to surrender was to disgarce him. They were ingrained that surrender is not an option. These people saden1 fought to the last man, and when all was hopeless they would either committ suicide, or bonzi charge your ass. That is why our casaulty rate was so high when we would "island hop" toward the main land of Japan. So don't misunderstand that the A-bomb really saved lives. And yes as crazy as that may sound to you. Because if we had done a main land invasion, the human cost would have been much higher. And trust me when I say this, but a land invasion would have pretty much destroyed much of Japan itself, and it would have taken far longer to rebuild Japan. It's a pretty safe bet that Japan would not have been able to rebuild to the Japan that we know of Japan today.

And in closing, you saden1 should really stop throwing fire bomb threads like this. All it does is piss one another off. It is obvious that no one will ever change your way of thinking clearly. I engage you from time to time because you challenge me, and I like that. But to others bro, I think your act is getting old. I'm sure that your professor is very proud of what you have become.

Brother saden1, don't get the whole "I'm glade as hell" thing all twisted. You see, like brother trample, I too have spent time over seas in the far East (Okinawa, and a little time in main land Japan). I have studied the Japanese culture and their people.

I guess that I don't have remind you that Japan dragged our reluctant asses into war with them when they attacked us at Pearl. You see before we were attacked, we were asked by our friends in Europe to save their beacon, because they were getting the crap kicked out of them by those same bad guys. Our so called political heros were too busy wringing their hands over the thought of going to war, and dealing with the menace of Japan, Germany, and Italy. These countries at the time were playing a game of world domination and genocide.

I also have read plenty of novels that cronicle our involvement in WWII. These novels are military, so you would probably not be interested. But, if you would ever like to get a different perspective, you should check some out. And when you do, you will learn how that those same people that started our involvement were vicious, cruel, and merciless, and yes racist killers.

The Japanese people were led by their Emperor, and to surrender was to disgarce him. They were ingrained that surrender is not an option. These people saden1 fought to the last man, and when all was hopeless they would either committ suicide, or bonzi charge your ***. That is why our casaulty rate was so high when we would "island hop" toward the main land of Japan. So don't misunderstand that the A-bomb really saved lives. And yes as crazy as that may sound to you. Because if we had done a main land invasion, the human cost would have been much higher. And trust me when I say this, but a land invasion would have pretty much destroyed much of Japan itself, and it would have taken far longer to rebuild Japan. It's a pretty safe bet that Japan would not have been able to rebuild to the Japan that we know of Japan today.

And in closing, you saden1 should really stop throwing fire bomb threads like this. All it does is piss one another off. It is obvious that no one will ever change your way of thinking clearly. I engage you from time to time because you challenge me, and I like that. But to others bro, I think your act is getting old. I'm sure that your professor is very proud of what you have become.

Very good post.

I do disagree about the rebuilding statement. Germany (Dresden specifically) was demolished in many ways, but was rebuilt and thrives. I have no doubt that if we had firebombed Japan, we would have been there for the re-building as well.

I also think there was a huge political aspect to the bombings, warning Russia off at the time, and if we had not done that, history most certainly would have written a different story.

If I remember right in Roman history, after a series of brutal Carthaginian wars, they salted the earth. This was their final act to say they were not gonna fight the same fight anymore. I have always looked at Hiroshima/Nagasaki in that light. Americans had expended a lot of blood and toil for Europe and Asia's fights, and the American President and people were fed up and wanted to make a huge statement to the effect - If you want to keep fighting, we are going to go postal on you a**.

Would you be willing to give up America's nuclear arsenal in exchange for a nuclear weapons free world? Is this something worth striving for?

I say keep the biggest stick especially since you're one of the few that are least likely to use it...nowadays. Getting rid of nukes just means someone somewhere will develop a different destructive technology that will eventually spread around until a new equilibrium of force deterrent is established.