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redsk1 07-14-2009, 11:56 AM I read an article by Ted Keith of SI that dangled the question. The Nats are not going to be competitive, at best scenario, another 3+ years. Too many holes in the bullpen, starting pitching, the outfield, and I could go on. Why not explore the idea? What could the Nats get in return for a young player, improving bat, great defense, and all around good guy under contract for 4 more years right?
I understand they want to sell some tix. Make some money. Let's face it though, this team is really bad right now and there isn't too much light at the end of the tunnel. See what you can get for Ryan that might make the Nationals better in 3-4 years down the road.
In that time, you hope to have Strasburg coming into his own, the rest of the 2009 draft picks, 2010 #1 and others, and most likely a 2011 #1. A recipe for some big time talent in a few years, just not next year.
By the way, it should be noted, i'm a big braves fan, but wish the Nats well when they are not playing each other. I'm just not happy they are both in the East. What do you guys think, trade Ryan for 2 top prospects minimum?
SmootSmack 07-14-2009, 01:11 PM I understand what you're saying, but it'd be really hard to sell the fans on the idea of trading away a local star like RZ.
SmootSmack 07-14-2009, 01:13 PM They need to first name Rizzo GM permanently, and sign Strasburg (or trade him for Halladay?...like Halladay would ever go for that).
And it will be interesting to see who their next manager is, assuming it's not Riggleman. Lots of rumors about Bobby Valentine and Buck Showalter.
jsarno 07-14-2009, 07:30 PM Absolutely. It's time to think about the future. Obviously he is a staple of the team, but let's face it, this team is still sinking with him on the ship. You went out and got a player like Dunn when you didn't need to for instance. He would be of value to other teams, just like Zimmerman is of value to other teams, and they will likely give up VERY good farm players in quantity. I don't know what your farm looks like, but it's time to restock for the future. Stop trying to plug a gaping hole with a piece of chewing gum. Kep in mind, he's only 24, so you can keep him and hope he developes, but he'll be worth a lot...or should be. If you don't get a good offer, than I say no.
Losing a staple is not the worst thing that can happen...look at the Red Sox losing Garciaparra. We got the right things in return and went on a tear and won the series. I understand we needed only a few pieces while you need a ton of pieces, but the point remains the same. You need to think about what is best for the team in the long run. If you can get quite a few top notch future prospects for a "staple" when you're the worst team in baseball...you do it. What do you have to lose at this point? Is Zimmerman and Dunn really filling the seats? Are you winning? Time to do something drastic...and yes, the GM is to blame, that team was not staffed right, but ultimately, you need to replace those people and start over.
GTripp0012 07-14-2009, 10:48 PM Zimmerman is the exact age of player you don't want to be trading if you are the Nats.
He's 25. Sure, he's likely to enjoy his career year on a team that wins 72 games. And no, he doesn't play a premium defensive position. But he plays third base incredibly well, and he's the kind of player who can accelerate the rebuilding process.
The problem with trading guys like Zimmerman for prospects is that you almost certainly are going to wait on a bunch of people to come up and pick up a fraction of the production. If he was three years older, well, yeah then you have to do something. But he's still improving, and his value isn't at it's highest point, so you hold on to him.
GTripp0012 07-14-2009, 10:51 PM You went out and got a player like Dunn when you didn't need to for instance. He would be of value to other teams, just like Zimmerman is of value to other teams, and they will likely give up VERY good farm players in quantity.Agreed on Dunn to the Nats not making very much sense. The good thing about him is, that he still comes with significant trade value, so you can flip him for prospects after the season.
ArtMonkDrillz 07-14-2009, 10:55 PM Agreed on Dunn to the Nats not making very much sense. The good thing about him is, that he still comes with significant trade value, so you can flip him for prospects after the season.The main thing with Dunn was just to satisfy us fans. It reminds me of The Simpsons episode with Mark McGwire: "Do you want to hear the awful truth, or do you want to watch me hit some dingers?!?!" The team wanted to show the fans that they're willing to put some money into an exciting player.
http://www.mcgwire.com/picarchive-simpson.jpg
That being said and as much as I enjoy watching him play for my hometown team, I do hope they trade Dunn and another fan favorite, Nick Johnson, while their values are highest.
redsk1 07-15-2009, 11:07 AM If you can get multiple top prospects, including a pitching prospect, i think you have to consider it. Yes, you do have to account for the fact the you have sold RZ as the "face" of the Nationals too. But, if you can get a BIG return, the Nats should listen.
No brainer on Johnson, Dunn, and even Guzman. Dunn should fetch a top prospect or two as well i would imagine. He's a liability in the field. I'd even pay some of Guzman's salary if that's what it took to get some good prospects for him.
The Nats management needs to try to stock there farm system as much as possible right now to get better 3 years from now. They'll be better off for it. They'll draw more fans. They'll win more games.
BDBohnzie 07-15-2009, 11:07 AM They were talking about this for a bit on ESPN 980's The Sports Reporters yesterday. You either trade a franchise player because you need the depth and youth or you keep a franchise player because his contract isn't overbearing and build the team around him. Zimmerman isn't a top 5 3rd baseman in the league, so his demand waivers on whether a team thinks he still has upside, as his contract would be very pleasing to anyone who would take him. If I'm the Nats, I need to continue to build an identity, and it starts with Ryan Zimmerman. While he's not a Top 5 right now, he has the potential to be so.
The Nats need to open the checkbook and start spending money, and it starts with Strasburg. And then Bryce Harper next year. They also need to continue to build their farm system so that they are competitive 3-4 years from now. They need to trade Nick Johnson for a case of Schlitz and some beer nuts, so when he gets hurt, it's on someone else's watch. They also need to make sure they aren't damaging the likes of Detwiler and Zimmermann on the mound for the sake of fielding a rotation.
BDBohnzie 07-15-2009, 11:12 AM No brainer on Johnson, Dunn, and even Guzman. Dunn should fetch a top prospect or two as well i would imagine. He's a liability in the field. I'd even pay some of Guzman's salary if that's what it took to get some good prospects for him.
While Johnson is a no brainer, they couldn't sell Dunn if they paid a team to take him. NO one stepped up to the plate in the offseason to sign him, which leads me to believe you'll get 1 or 2 mid level draft picks for him tops. Look at the deal they made to get Soriano out of town...they got virtually nothing for him.
Once they move Johnson, they can put Dunn on 1st where he belongs and hope he doesn't let too many go. Guzman has been solid at SS, and they really have no one in the system as the heir apparent at SS. Plus I don't see any teams reaching for a SS...
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