I Thought It Takes 2 Years To Learn The WCO

Well it's not like at the end of two years you suddenly have learned it. The expectation is that you see progress over the course of a year and a half. Have we seen that progress?

Are you sure? My understanding was that you start off great for about eight games, get progressively worse for the next 23 and then kick ass on the 32nd.

I think that there has been progress. It just hasn't translated into points and wins yet. If the Skins stay the course, they can get there.

You must be kidding, this team and coaching staff are lost. If not where exactly do you see this progress?

If the SKINS stay this course this massive train wreck will continue for a LONG TIME. Changes are needed. This job is way over Zorns head.

I think the true problem with us is before Lewis came on board yesterday who had experience in the WCO besides Zorn? I don't think anyone has therefore i'm not convinced all the coaches know what they are coaching. Other coaches bring in Cam Cameron, Dom Capers, Mike Nolan & etc. All previous coaches who had experience and know what they are doing.

I think that there has been progress. It just hasn't translated into points and wins yet. If the Skins stay the course, they can get there.

Staying the course wouldnt have saved the Titanic from sinking and it won't help this team. At some point, its time to abandon ship and get on another boat, so to speak. Whether that process starts after the bye week or at the end of the season, it doesnt change the fact that this ship is sinking under Zorns leadership. Hiring him as HC was one of the biggest mistakes this franchsise has made in its history. Staying the course any longer than necessary won't change that fact. Someone else will be coaching the skins in 2010. We can either start laying the groundwork for that now, or wait until the seasons over and "blow everything up." It needs to happen. Its going to happen. Staying the course is not an option.

You must be kidding, this team and coaching staff are lost. If not where exactly do you see this progress?

If the SKINS stay this course this is a massive train wreck any or should I say EVERY Sunday.

I remember when the Redskins couldn't move the ball against anyone much less score. Now they can move the ball, they still can't score.

Going back to 04 the Washington Redskins have improved in Total offensive yards every season until last year. With the slight decline comming because of the changing of the offensive scheme. Right now the Skins are averaging more offensive yards this year than any in the Joe Gibbs 2.0. The points per game have been terrible since 2004 and have been on the decline since 2005. So while we are seeing an increase of offensive production in terms of yardage we are still lacking in the scoring department. In other words there is improvement it just hasn't translated into points and wins yet.

2004 YPG (274) PPG (15)
2005 YPG (330) PPG (22.4)
2006 YPG (327) PPG (19.2)
2007 YPG (334) PPG (20.9)
2008 YPG (320) PPG (16.6)
2009 YPG (352) PPG (14)


To answer your question I am not joking.

I've seen progress moving the ball but like you said not in scoring which will lead to those wins. The toughest place to run any system is in the red zone and thats where I see our biggest problem and that is where the timing is most crucial. If they can improve on that then those losses we have had are wins.

Agreed. JC wasn't given the chance to get the team in the end zone twice against the rams, even though he'd moved the team down the field to get them in the red zone.

Just imagine this; v. Rams: Sellers & Thomas catch those td passes v. the rams they dropped AND Orakpo wasn't called for a personal foul which negated a fumble recovery at about the 15. The game is a blow out, not even counting the Hb option play & CP getting stuffed on 4th down.

Detroit: CP either gets in from the 1 or JC makes a play for a td. Different ballgame.

These are just a few plays, which is what games come down to. But if these plays had gone well, I bet many would say that the Tampa game was just a bad half for JC & the offense.

My point is that there has been progress made w/the offense, but due to a few bad plays (drops, questionable play calls, JC throwing in traffic) there's nothing to show for it. It seems to me that most of the problems are perhaps greater than just correcting technical flaws. This team is in need of inspiration & confidence, maybe the 2nd half of tampa gave it to them?

We all talk about Snyder not showing any patients but what are all the fans now doing? When Zorn was hired all the talk was it takes 2 years for the O to learn and get down the timing of the WCO. Joe T. and others said over and over again it takes 2 years and fans need to be patient. We are 4 weeks into the season not even close to having two years in the system and now everyone is jumping ship. Just a thought.


There's not a great deal of difference between the patience of Snyder and that of the FW fan. I've said it before, Snyder expects his HC to make bricks out of straw and won't even give him time to do that. An 8-8 finish for a first yr. head coach with a limited resume is not a horrible effort.

Rather than admit the team needs help in critical areas across the board, it's just so much easier to blame it on the coach. When things don't go well someone has to take the fall, right now the fall guy is Zorn, deserving or not.

Staying the course wouldnt have saved the Titanic from sinking and it won't help this team. At some point, its time to abandon ship and get on another boat, so to speak. Whether that process starts after the bye week or at the end of the season, it doesnt change the fact that this ship is sinking under Zorns leadership. Hiring him as HC was one of the biggest mistakes this franchsise has made in its history. Staying the course any longer than necessary won't change that fact. Someone else will be coaching the skins in 2010. We can either start laying the groundwork for that now, or wait until the seasons over and "blow everything up." It needs to happen. Its going to happen. Staying the course is not an option.

So you want to compare a cruise ship to a football team? I would rather use the stock market. You don't want to sell too quickly. The football team will never sink and be lost forever, a ship is most likely gone if it sinks. A football team can come back after a shitty performance, a boat...not so much. A stock can be doing very poorly one day and come back strong for a long time. The team hasn't totally matured under the WCO and Zorn, its too soon to cut our loses. I think you have to give a coach at least 4 years (except for a very few like Gibbs and Belichick). Don't start rambling about Tomlin and Gruden, those were Cowher's and Dungee's teams. But hey, what do I know, I am just a fan on a fan site.

So you want to compare a cruise ship to a football team? I would rather use the stock market. You don't want to sell too quickly. The football team will never sink and be lost forever a ship is most likely gone if it sinks. A football teams can come back after a shitty performance, a boat...not so much. A stock can be doing very poorly one day and come back strong for a long time. The team hasn't totally matured under the WCO and Zorn, its too soon to cut our loses. I think you have to give a coach at least 4 years (except for a very few like Gibbs and Belichick). Don't start rambling about Tomlin and Gruden, those were Cowher's and Dungee's teams. But hey, what do I know, I am just a fan on a fan site.


I agree, but there's no way any coach is going to get four yrs. out of Snyder unless he get's the team to the payoffs each of those four yrs. and ultimately wins a championship. It matters less who the coach is, if the team does not make improvements coaches will just be a repeat performance.

In today's NFL, how many coaches anywhere would get more than 3-4 years to get at least a playoff game? I'm not positive, but I would guess on average it's 3 years...and we're above average :)