Eight Long Years: Where Is Osama Bin Laden?

Great points SS33 and Trample . As far as leaving Afganistan if Bin Laden is killed, I doubt we leave anytime soon as SS33 pointed out . I would add , if you saw a rat in your house , it's a good bet it is not the only one , you do not kill just one as they breed like crazy. Oil .... interesting read Enormous Oil Seepage in the Gulf of Mexico | Geology.com (http://geology.com/news/2007/enormous-oil-seepage-in-the-gulf-of-mexico.shtml) . Should we send the 40,000 troops , hope all Americans back the President and our young men and women serving our country.

Great points SS33 and Trample . As far as leaving Afganistan if Bin Laden is killed, I doubt we leave anytime soon as SS33 pointed out . I would add , if you saw a rat in your house , it's a good bet it is not the only one , you do not kill just one as they breed like crazy. Oil .... interesting read Enormous Oil Seepage in the Gulf of Mexico | Geology.com (http://geology.com/news/2007/enormous-oil-seepage-in-the-gulf-of-mexico.shtml) . Should we send the 40,000 troops , hope all Americans back the President and our young men and women serving our country.

We do what we can.

Paralyzed Veterans of America: Paralyzed Veterans of America Home (http://www.pva.org/site/PageServer)

We do what we can.

Paralyzed Veterans of America: Paralyzed Veterans of America Home (http://www.pva.org/site/PageServer)
Thanks for the link , we can all help a little .

Everyone has brought up good points. Essentially it all comes down to oil. The region (Afghanistan is a good example) is simply an unstable region. Very factional and culturally difficult to control. We only care about the region because of oil, they only dislike us because of things we have done because of oil, we're only there because of oil. It all comes back to oil. It is why the energy policy of our nation is of such importance. Forget all the crunchy-granola peace-pipe propaganda about the climate...plain and simple oil is going to put our country in its grave if we don't figure out how to not need it.

As for Afghanistan, the biggest mistake that's been made, and the same error made in Iraq, was the definition of our goals. Dumdum Bush and his administration had this ridiculous notion that they could sell a war in the middle east as a simple national security issue.One that could be solved via toppling of a few despots in the region and some mild rebuilding. Voila! Stability. In fact the stability of the region, by our definition and for our own benefit, will only come from a protracted presence of our own troops. This has always been the case. There never was a magic bullet strategy for going in, doing the job and getting out. The JOB is to be there. Removing the Taliban was th easy excuse but ultimately bullcrap. It was simply step one in a decades long list of things we need to do there. That's what we committed ourselves to with the first bullet. Decades. Most Americans didn't know this but our politicians, Dems and Reps both, sure knew it. And if there were a few that didn't then they're dumdum donkey idiots. If we're going to be there, and we can't leave, then we need to send every single troop that's needed. I'd rather we send an extra 40k, 100k or a million if we had it and cut down the casualties. Otherwise we're stuck executing Rumsfeld's ill-fated strategy of light and fast which as we've found out actually means half-assed and dangerously.

..... I'd rather we send an extra 40k, 100k or a million if we had it and cut down the casualties.....If we're sending more troops (which i have no problem with if they have a defined short-term mission) the higher ups and civilian leadership (SECDEF, Congress) need to make the rules of engagement such that we protect our kids rather than leave them under fire for fear of injuring civilians.

Oceana pilots face new restrictions in Afghanistan | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com (http://hamptonroads.com/2009/09/oceana-pilots-face-new-restrictions-afghanistan?page=2)

Everyone has brought up good points. Essentially it all comes down to oil. The region (Afghanistan is a good example) is simply an unstable region. Very factional and culturally difficult to control. We only care about the region because of oil, they only dislike us because of things we have done because of oil, we're only there because of oil. It all comes back to oil. It is why the energy policy of our nation is of such importance. Forget all the crunchy-granola peace-pipe propaganda about the climate...plain and simple oil is going to put our country in its grave if we don't figure out how to not need it.

As for Afghanistan, the biggest mistake that's been made, and the same error made in Iraq, was the definition of our goals. Dumdum Bush and his administration had this ridiculous notion that they could sell a war in the middle east as a simple national security issue.One that could be solved via toppling of a few despots in the region and some mild rebuilding. Voila! Stability. In fact the stability of the region, by our definition and for our own benefit, will only come from a protracted presence of our own troops. This has always been the case. There never was a magic bullet strategy for going in, doing the job and getting out. The JOB is to be there. Removing the Taliban was th easy excuse but ultimately bullcrap. It was simply step one in a decades long list of things we need to do there. That's what we committed ourselves to with the first bullet. Decades. Most Americans didn't know this but our politicians, Dems and Reps both, sure knew it. And if there were a few that didn't then they're dumdum donkey idiots. If we're going to be there, and we can't leave, then we need to send every single troop that's needed. I'd rather we send an extra 40k, 100k or a million if we had it and cut down the casualties. Otherwise we're stuck executing Rumsfeld's ill-fated strategy of light and fast which as we've found out actually means half-assed and dangerously.
How much oil is in Afganistan ? If we only cared for oil , why haven't we stopped supporting Isreal , if we let the Islamic countries in that region destroy Isreal we would have $ 10 barrels of oil . So by your account , even if AL Qaeda / Bin Laden run terror camps out of New Zealand , Bush would have set our troops to Afgan'st ? We were in Iraq / Kuwait in 1991 , how much oil have we taken in almost 20 years ? I'm not saying oil , like any commodity does not have an effect on policy , but in this case I think thats a stretch . After 9-11 , are you suggesting we should have done nothing , thinking they would not try a more deadly attack , just asking ?

Well I say its more of a fight of power then oil. If we sat back and let nations like China or Russia gain too much control of the oil then we are in deap shit. We can come up with all the clean energy we want (which does help) but we cannot protect ourself with out oil. I can't see troops stopping to plug in their tanks before advancing.

Well I say its more of a fight of power then oil. If we sat back and let nations like China or Russia gain too much control of the oil then we are in deap shit. We can come up with all the clean energy we want (which does help) but we cannot protect ourself with out oil. I can't see troops stopping to plug in their tanks before advancing.
Are you trying to say we can't put solar panels on a tank and power it ? Guys , not to change the subject , but don't be shocked if the day comes where wars are fought over water .... just saying

How much oil is in Afganistan ? If we only cared for oil , why haven't we stopped supporting Isreal , if we let the Islamic countries in that region destroy Isreal we would have $ 10 barrels of oil . So by your account , even if AL Qaeda / Bin Laden run terror camps out of New Zealand , Bush would have set our troops to Afgan'st ? We were in Iraq / Kuwait in 1991 , how much oil have we taken in almost 20 years ? I'm not saying oil , like any commodity does not have an effect on policy , but in this case I think thats a stretch . After 9-11 , are you suggesting we should have done nothing , thinking they would not try a more deadly attack , just asking ?

There were several gas lines scheduled to run through Afghanistan. Central Asia is the big up and coming spot for oil and natural gas.

Fire Plug seems to be on a somewhat similar understanding of what I and many others have said. It's not just about oil. It's about de-balling the new up and coming threat, China.

Israel isn't important. Why our government supports them is beyond me? The cynical part of me says Jewish votes. I'm no expert? I have no opinion on the matter. I'd rather be tighter with Egypt and Turkey. They probably already have nukes too.

I don't believe what the politicians say, only what they do. There isn't much of a difference in policy regarding oil as a weapon since it was discovered. We control the price and distribution, we win.

What is being done to China now is what was done to Russia in reverse. Russia decided it was more profitable to play on the side of the big dogs. When gasoline goes up to 4$ dollars a gallon the Russians smile and the Chinese cringe.

I don't buy this war on terrorism garbage anymore. If we wanted the Taliban dead, they'd be dead. If Pakistan wanted them dead, they'd be dead. We're being fed sound bites that nice little girls and boys can get behind. The big boys know better.

Consider this: Chinese currency is valued based off of the dollar. They devalue their currency to make their imports cheap. The spend twice as much for oil. The price of oil is based on dollars. The reserve currency of the world is American dollars. Our major allies and proxies are oil rich: Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Canada, Russia, Kuwait, and a myriad of others. China has next to nothing in oil. Chinese oil infrastucture is inferior. It takes more oil for them to produce energy and they have a hard time burning high sulfur oil. They have to buy light sweet.

This is how nuclear armed superpowers fight, through proxies. It's no different than when we fought the Russians. We never went toe to toe. We faught their proxies: N.Korea, China (not yet a nuclear power), Vietnam, FMLN, Cuba, and all the others we never heard of.

Trample i agree with most of your points . Of course we are not fighting an Army in Afganistan < like we did in WW2 > . We could destroy the Taliban/ al qaeda if we destroyed the country , massive bombing , which would result in mass civilian deaths . I think that is the main reason they have not been put out of commision . We are not at war with a country , but a movement < ideology > , where the enemy is global . Not disputing what you said . I guess I look at the Oil part this way , if we wanted to , we could have taken it from Kuwait and Iraq in 91 if . Isreal , I'm just making a point , if we had stopped supporting Isreal ... say in 1972 , the Arab nations that make up OPEC would have no reason to hate us , thus making them willing to trade /sell oil at lower levels . I would almost be in favor of hitting the middle east with nukes like we did Japan , but I would rather not . As far as Nat. Gas , we have plenty , and I think Russia supplies Europe Nat. Gas , as Russia has a vast suppy . If you and some of the others are correct , Brazil better become our friends or they might be at war with us next ...http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/19/world/americas/19braziloil.html as they have ... maybe larger oil fields than Saudia Arabia Petrobras' Tupi Oil Field May Hold 8 Billion Barrels (Update6) - Bloomberg.com (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&refer=news&sid=arYFojM6udEI)