Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson

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GTripp0012
06-30-2010, 07:10 PM
Well when you say "over his career," you're really only talking about three seasons, during which he was 23-25 years old. He's getting better. Again, if VJ saw all the targets BM saw, especially in the short passing game, I'm sure his YPC would be more similar to BM's. Denver didn't have an Antonio Gates or Sproles/LT to catch passes out of the backfield. I don't think VJ's success is solely a product of Rivers. I think he's a great talent.

At some point this became the Brandon Marshall vs. Vincent Jackson thread. I think they're both great, and there are arguments on both sides for why one is better than the other. It's sort of apples to apples. I'll be happy to have one or both on any of my fantasy teams this fall. :)

As far as Jackson embarrassing teammates/family, maybe his antics aren't on BM's level, but 2 or 3 DUI's and an upcoming suspension isn't too far off. Plus I hear the fanbase out in SD is pretty much over the guy.I don't think you're wrong. More short targets for VJ would mean more catches that fail to pick up first downs which would mean less value per play. I follow that logic completely: Jackson clearly benefits from the role Norv calls for him.

I don't necessarily think it reverses though. I don't think you could have Marshall play the role of Jackson in the Chargers offense and still have a top five passing offense, top five scoring offense, or necessarily have Marshall not actively hurting the offense. Now, the Miami Dolphins are betting two valuable second round picks and tens of millions of dollars that GTripp has no f-ing clue what he's talking about. That's...intimidating. But it's also not my loss if they are wrong.

And like you said, he's not quite done improving/refining. The veteran/aged Brandon Marshall is going to be a different player than the developing Marshall. Probably along the lines of a pure possession receiver.

My whole point all along was that I don't really think it is apples to apples, and if you were ever going to consider throwing a top draft pick at a veteran player, might as well make it a 27-year old who is at the top of his craft. There are ALWAYS good reasons to suspect that it's a bad idea to give up picks for players. There's a really good chance that giving up picks for players is always a losing proposition, and never a good idea. However, in the absence of this conclusion, Jackson is about as close to a sure-thing elite talent as it gets. And no one at his level (5+ WPA "wins" in the last two seasons) is ever on the trading block. Or at least not since Jared Allen was two seasons ago.

GMScud
06-30-2010, 07:18 PM
I don't think you're wrong. More short targets for VJ would mean more catches that fail to pick up first downs which would mean less value per play. I follow that logic completely: Jackson clearly benefits from the role Norv calls for him.

I don't necessarily think it reverses though. I don't think you could have Marshall play the role of Jackson in the Chargers offense and still have a top five passing offense, top five scoring offense, or necessarily have Marshall not actively hurting the offense. Now, the Miami Dolphins are betting two valuable second round picks and tens of millions of dollars that GTripp has no f-ing clue what he's talking about. That's...intimidating. But it's also not my loss if they are wrong.

And like you said, he's not quite done improving/refining. The veteran/aged Brandon Marshall is going to be a different player than the developing Marshall. Probably along the lines of a pure possession receiver.

My whole point all along was that I don't really think it is apples to apples, and if you were ever going to consider throwing a top draft pick at a veteran player, might as well make it a 27-year old who is at the top of his craft. There are ALWAYS good reasons to suspect that it's a bad idea to give up picks for players. There's a really good chance that giving up picks for players is always a losing proposition, and never a good idea. However, in the absence of this conclusion, Jackson is about as close to a sure-thing elite talent as it gets. And no one at his level (5+ WPA "wins" in the last two seasons) is ever on the trading block. Or at least not since Jared Allen was two seasons ago.

I lol'd. That's signature worthy.

I guess we're almost in agreement, however I do think if SD used Marshall like they did VJ, they would have still had good results. He's not quite the physical specimen that VJ is, but he's an elite receiver who can go underneath and up top with success. Basically I think BM is a bit more a stud WR than you do.

Good discussion. I talked more football on this site today than I have in months. I'm so jacked for the season.

GTripp0012
06-30-2010, 07:21 PM
Anyone else just hear on NFL total access that Vincent Jackson is currently catching passes and working out with Mcnabb in Arizona right now? They also talked about the possibility of the skins working out a 3 team deal to acquire Jackson and get rid of haynesworth to reduce the amount of picks involved.That's pretty big news.

The second part seems like pure speculation by the NFLN panel, who knows who is actually interested in Haynesworth? (Raiders?...he'd make a lot of sense for that defense), because SD probably wants nothing to do with him, but 3 team deals are hard.

They're also a Shanahan specialty (the 2006 John Abraham trade had nothing to do with Denver, but he finagled a trade up for Cutler out of it).

MTK
06-30-2010, 07:30 PM
Wow...way to completely misinterpret my 'glass-half empty' post. If you look at some of my other posts or what I have said in this thread, I have never said that getting McNabb, Williams, Brown etc. were bad moves. In fact, I have genuine optimism going forward. I even said, "there is reason to be optimistic" ad verbatim.

My posts are directed at those who say: 1. With Vincent Jackson, we are superbowl contenders or 2. Our offensive line is the best in the division.

My point is, this current group has proven nothing. Does that mean I am saying they are bad? No, Does it mean that we should be getting ready to send 20 players to the pro bowl? Resoundingly no.

It's not pessimistic to say that this team is NOT a surefire Superbowl Contender. If it is then label me a pessimist.

I was merely referring to these takes you had on these moves:

top 10 defense? no idea b/c this group w/ the 3-4 is untested
franchise qb? no b/c McNabb is not the long term answer
Getting a LT and RT? yeah, we acquired a LT and RT. One is coming off a major injury and is changing positions, the other is a rookie who wasn't the top ranked tackle in the draft
Solid RB core? No, bunch of old-timers
The list could go on and on about the deficiencies.

Sounded pessimistic to me.

In the grand scheme I get what you're saying now.

MTK
06-30-2010, 07:31 PM
That's pretty big news.

The second part seems like pure speculation by the NFLN panel, who knows who is actually interested in Haynesworth? (Raiders?...he'd make a lot of sense for that defense), because SD probably wants nothing to do with him, but 3 team deals are hard.

They're also a Shanahan specialty (the 2006 John Abraham trade had nothing to do with Denver, but he finagled a trade up for Cutler out of it).

Seattle was floated out there a week or so ago as being possibly interested.

skinsfaninok
06-30-2010, 07:43 PM
Pft is reporting that Vincent Jackson is working out with mcnabb in Arizona.

GTripp0012
06-30-2010, 07:54 PM
Go west, fat guy.

skinsfan69
06-30-2010, 08:01 PM
Shanhan won SB's in Denver with and 8th round WR and undrafted WR.
I see your point about McNabb....but I think our looking at WR's right now is more about Shannahan not happy with what we currently have at WR than that we need to win now because McNabb is older. They are exploring the diffrent options and cost to improve our WR corp that he is clearly not happy with yet.

He also had one of the best QB in NFL history.

81forHOF
06-30-2010, 08:05 PM
Jacksons stats his first 2 years in the league = 30 catches, 500 yds, 6TDs

Devin Thomas's stats after 2 years = 40 catches, 425 yards, 4 TDS

for all we know we already have a player better than him on our roster - one that we already spent a draft pick on. Groom our own players!

NYCskinfan82
06-30-2010, 08:10 PM
Jacksons stats his first 2 years in the league = 30 catches, 500 yds, 6TDs

Devin Thomas's stats after 2 years = 40 catches, 425 yards, 4 TDS

for all we know we already have a player better than him on our roster - one that we already spent a draft pick on. Groom our own players!


You make an excellent point based on your stats, it seems like alot of people miss Vinny although they say they don't. Vinny would of sold the farm to get this guy already. I beleive our WR's will step up this year better system & coaching.

HTTR

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