In Defense of Vinny Cerrato

I might be wrong but he was GM spent themselves into the mess they are in now.

I don't think so he was but I could be wrong. he's been with the skins since 99 and that is plently of time to mitigate anything he would have done before that that. I don't like him either I and I do think he did a poor job with that team but I don't think he is mainly responsible for their cap hell right now. He probably had a little to do with it. Remember...in general teams operate on 3 years cycles right now and have since the 90's. Everyone plans out about 3 years in advance because by that fourth year everything is so unpredictable. I think most teams get into salary cap hell around the 4th year and are out of it after the 5th year. By 99 the 49ers were knee deep in a rebuilding I think so they were probably a year or two into their 3 year cycle. They have been straight up bad at salary cap manuevering since Walsh left.

Vinny doesn't have very much power in the front office, at least not as much as some of you would like to think.

Actually, Cerrato and Coach vote, with Snyder casting the deciding vote. This was the setup under Spurrier as well, and I believe Turner before that. Only Schotty had full control, and I think that drove Dan nuts. So Cerrato has considerable influence, and is trusted in his evaluations.

Just to add to that, apparently Gregg Williams is also one of the personnel decision makers, or I should say he votes as well

By 99 the 49ers were knee deep in a rebuilding I think so they were probably a year or two into their 3 year cycle. They have been straight up bad at salary cap manuevering since Walsh left.

And if I remember right, Vinny C. was the player personnel director for the Niners back in the mid to late '90s

Are you out of your mind??!! Cerrato until Gibbs showed up was the main guy telling Synder waht to do. Plain and simple. It is documented that he is Synder's guy. Hell, he even REHIRED him after Marty left. True Cerrato does not make the final decision but you can't find any eveidence that the Skins ever made a pick that Cerrato didn't agree to. Cerrato IS NOT just a talent evaluator for Synder he is is SYnder's football guy who guided him through the first couple years and is the MAIN guy telling Synder what to do. You are fooing yourself if you think Synder just keeps him on the get his opinion and then discard it.

FRPLG-
I am out of mind, thank you :).
However maybe you need to take a refresher course and see what a real GM (see definition: Beathard then Casserly) did under the late great Jack Kent Cooke and that might tell you why we won three Super Bowls. The GM called the shots and made 90% of all player acquistion final decsions. That is why I make fun of Cerrato and do not like Snyder playing real GM and Cerrato along for the ride.
I think YOU are fooling yourself as to why Snyder keeps VC on. Cerrato is probably the only one that would accept taking a back seat. What good GM would want to come and serve under Snyder? Not any good one's. he great GM's want to be able to do their job and not be second guessed all the time.

smootsmack:

I suspect that the first time Vinny tells Danny Boy to get his own coffee or light his own cigar, Vinnie will be outta here in a flash. If Danny Boy ever stops short walking down a hallway, Cerrato will wind up with his head up Danny Boy's ass.



Ramseyfan:

Let's look at your list OBJECTIVELY for just a moment. When I say OBJECTIVELY, I mean let's look at what has happened with these acquisitions you asert have been so astute and not what we think will happen with them sometime in the future or what we imagine they might have done with just a break or two in the past. Look at the on-field performance:


Coles: Good season last year - except for one thing. He did not get in the end zone a whole lot. I suspect he is playing hurt more than the Skins have let on this year and so his value this year has been mediocre at best. Skins are paying a LOT of money for not a lot of production on the field.

Thomas: Solid performer. Not nearly the best OG in the NFC East but not the worst either. Definitely the best interior OL the Skins have. Good signing.

Portis: Cost the team a ton in terms of players and draft picks and salary. He needs to have about three monster years to make it worthwhile. He is having a very good season so far, but the jury is still out as to whether or not he was worth it. Looks good so far...

Cartwright: Lots of hustle; not a lot of talent and certainly not any on-field production to speak of. The next blitzing linebacker that he blocks will be the first one. The best thing you can say about him is that he does not cost them much in terms of cap room. If he were to cost them $1M in cap room, he'd have been gone in the second week of training camp. A special teamer at best.

Betts: Another guy who does not cost a lot. Hampered by recurring injuries. A question mark at best.

Griffin: A really worthwhile addition who has played above what his previous perfromances would have indicated. Assuming his current injury is nothing serious, a good signing.

Washington: The best acquisition they made in the last two years - bar none.

Springs: Costs a lot of cap room down the road so I'm not sure he's worth it. But after getting rid of Bailey in order to acquire Portis, they had to get a seasoned corner for that side of the field. They probably overpaid for Springs because the Portis deal left them over-the-barrel. But overpaying is nothing new to this FO.

Taylor: Lots of physical talent but a mental meathead. Be prepared to see him make some spectacular hits in the next few years and be prepared to revel in them because he will also give up lots of big plays and TDs. He's a headhunter and not a fundamentally sound safety. And I'm becoming convinced that he's not going to learn much more than he knows now...

Clark: A good value for the team because he does not cost a lot. But don't kid yourself that this is the reincarnation of Ronnie Lott.


I notice you neglected to put Philip Daniels on your list. Daniels has been an underchiever this year. I also notice you neglected to have Dave Fiore on your list. Unfortunately, injuries intervened to make him unable to perform, but that was not a great team addition. I see that Professor Morton is not ou your list either. His contributions on the field for the past year and a half would fit in a thimble. You also neglected to mention John Hall who was a good addition who has unfortunately been injured but who has been very effective when healthy..

Let's look at the others on your list

Brunell: They wanted/needed a veteran QB. Showing no patience, the FO raced out to get someone as soon as free agency opened up so that they could make a big spalsh and get Danny Boy a press conference opportunity to see himnself on TV and in the papers. They paid a lot of money for a guy who was being thrown to the curb by a 5-11 team. The outcome of that move has been way less than positive; in fact it ranks up there with the Jeff George signing in terms of boneheadedness.

Ramsey: Was he a first round pick or merely the first pick that the Skins had that year? Compare him to other QBs taken in the first/second rounds of the draft after being in the NFL for two and a half years. I'll be polite and say that he is "behind the curve".

Barrow: Who knows if this guy is a good player or a bad player because he has not played yet? Wasn't he on the Giants team that went to the Super Bowl? If so, he can't be a total stiff...

Trotter: The Redskins gave him a $35M total package with something like a $7M signing bonus. He is now playing back in Philly on a one year deal worth less than $1M in base salary. Do you think the Skins overpaid by just a tad?

Bowen: A mediocre player who got paid a mediocre salary. He was neither a positive nor a negative.


You also have conveniently left off your list totally some disastrous acquisitions such as Regan Upshaw, Jermaine Haley, Darryl Russell, Lionel Daulton and that other useless DT that they had last year whose name escapes me at the moment. None of the five of these guys were a good acquisition. Upshaw was the best of the lot and he was pretty much "useless".

Care to evaluate Man-Mountain Kenyatta in this context? How about Ray Brown?

You said you were not sure why Cerrato and the FO is "criticized so often". I hope I have explained...

1. I think your definition of Objectively reads, "See my opinion."

2. Ramsey is below the curve for someone picked in the first round? First of all, he was the last pick of the first round. Second of all, there were no QBs picked after him that are looking any better. Third, I'd take Ramsey (and his cap figures) over Harrington any day of the week.

3. Coles was a fantastic addition.

4. Thomas IS one of the best guards in the NFC.

5. Taylor isn't a fundamentally sound player? Dude, he's had about 5 starts.

6. Dave Fiore was a risky signing and he was paid like it. It was a gamble we lost.

7. Do you really believe Hall wasn't a good addition? Maybe we should have stuck with Jose Cortez.

8. We got hosed on the the Brunell deal and I admitted it.

9. Trotter tore his ACL, that's not VC's fault - plus, he's starting to do well in Philly again. Nevertheless, I admit we overpaid.

10. Jermaine Haley and Lional Dalton? Yeah we broke the bank for them.

11. We've always had some of the best talent in the NFC and that's what VC is here to do.

Ramseyfan:

"Objectively" does not mean "see my opinion". "Objectively" means last year's record was 5-11 and this year's record is 3-6. That combines to 8-17 which is objectively - - not so damned good.

So if we have always had some of the "best talent in the NFC", it certainly has not shown up on the field on Sundays. That's where objectivity happens. That's where the scoreboard tells you who won and who did not win. And this fantastic assemblage of talent has lost more than twice as often as it has won in the last two seasons. That is objectivity!

If you think that a squad that is 8-17 over the past year and a half is "great", you are entitled to your opinion. I don't think that is something that will stand up to an objective analysis.

I said Coles does not get in the end zone much. I believe he has scored 8 TDs in his 25 games with the Skins. That's not a lot for a #1 WR. You may love him as a person and as a player; all I said is he doesn't score a lot.

Ramsey is a first round pick playing QB. So look at the other first round QBs in the NFL and see how they have done after 2.5 years. Yes, Ramsey is a light year better than Akili Smith and Ryan Leaf and Cade McNown because they are out of the league. But beware of too many other comparisons. And by the way, I suspect that the Lions would not be willing to take Ramsey and ship Harrington here even-up.

Since you say Thomas IS one of the best guards in the NFC, that must make it so. Isn't that your version of "see my opinion"? Doubt he'll need to pack for a trip to Hawaii in February... Nonetheless, I still say he was a good signing by Vinnie.

Taylor is not going to learn fundamentals like tackling technique at the NFL level so his fundamental skills are likely to be what they are now. He'll improve his coverage as he learns to recognize situations - assuming he is capable of learning. The jury is out on that. Just wait till he goes into his "I wanna renegotiate" routine.

I said Hall was a good addition but that he has been hurt. BTW you didn't mention Tupa but he was a good addition too.

The Skins gave up a draft choice for Daulton and another draft choice for that other useless meatbag of a DT that they got from the Saints last year. Even if these two played for free last year, that is overpaying!

And since you didn't mention Darryl Russell, I'll assume you agree - on an obective basis of course - that it was "not a brilliant move" to bring him on board...

SC, why do you think Taylor can't improve upon his tackling in the NFL??

Matty:

The reason is that few if any players ever seem to do that. If anything, the majority of players erode tackling skills and sound fundamentals in favor of "big hits" and "SportsCenter shots" as their career's progress.

Maybe Sean Taylor will buck that trend? I doubt it, but he might.

"Objectively" does not mean "see my opinion". "Objectively" means last year's record was 5-11 and this year's record is 3-6. That combines to 8-17 which is objectively - - not so damned good.

So if we have always had some of the "best talent in the NFC", it certainly has not shown up on the field on Sundays. That's where objectivity happens. That's where the scoreboard tells you who won and who did not win. And this fantastic assemblage of talent has lost more than twice as often as it has won in the last two seasons. That is objectivity!

and you don't think the massive coaching overhaul nearly every year had any part in stunting comfort in the system/stats/etc? cause i'd sure say that the massive personnel turn overs are a bigger problem than some of the individual players in our record... most first year coaches have losing records, and we've had a lot of first year HCs/DCs/OCs etc in recent history.