Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

Yeah, I know all about Rice's egotistical ways. But like TO, aside from the "prostitution" incident, never any real off-field issues.

Here's a question for you guys (not to take this thread too far off topic). If you had to choose one-who goes in 1st ballot. TO or Marvin Harrison?

Let's say TO's career is over: Here are his numbers-15 years; 1,078 receptions; 15,934 yards; 156 TDs

Harrison-13 years; 1,102 receptions; 14,580 yards; 128 TDs

One a complete loner who often wouldn't even go into team huddles, the other invites the young WRs on the team to live and train with him in the off-season. One of them has thrown almost all his QBs under the bus, the other played with one of the best of all time. One of them has never had a serious issue with the law, the other....curiously involved in a fatal shooting.

TO hands down. More yardage on fewer catches and more TD's. One thing you can't deny TO is he got in the end zone better than anyone that's ever played except a couple of players.

NO!
I can't believe that everyone thinks TO is a hall of famer. If the guy was that good why did 3 teams get rid of him in his prime?

I know, he's got the #s & on the field was great - at times. But to paraphrase Herm Edwards, if the point is to win the game, TO did almost as much to bring his teams down as he did to win games. Should that behavior be discounted just because he made a lot of plays? No, he ultimately was not a winner. Every time his team got close to winning big, he divided the team. His super bowl game exemplifies this; he had a great game, then throws his qb under the bus. The damage was too much to repair in the next season.

Job Performance = your behavior in any manner associated w/your employer & fellow employees.
TO's job performance was great at times, horrendos at others. Don't mistake my point for "off field" issues, different subject altogether. When you talk about your teamates & throw tantrums on the sideline, that is part of what your evaluated on as an employee. TO never carried himself like a hall of famer & will likely end his career like Allen Iverson, w/nobody wanting him.

Cause the guy's a major pain in the ass. He pisses off everyone to the point where his talent doesn't even matter.

T.O. probably spoke the truth more often than not. Unfortunately, speaking the truth does not often make a good teammate

Actually it did, 3 teams thought so! I won't even count Buffalo, as he was old when he left there. I'll give TO credit for what he's done & I think he should be considered for the hall, but when you analyze his career, he did as much damage to his teams as he did good. Isn't the point of the game to help the team win? By that standard, TO did negate his on-field performance because his employers decided that letting him go was 'addition by subtraction.'

If you want to say the hall is ONLY about career stats, then by that standard, yes, he's got the #s. I would hate it if the hall simply became only about that.

Well some people that know a hell of a lot more football than you and I believe the HOF should focus on stats; and believe TO is a HOF'er. I'm just going by what they are saying.

Once again, I agree with some of the things that you are saying, but it is hard to ignore his numbers and how his performance on the field impacted the play of those teams. The HOF voters will make him sweat a year, but he will eventually get in.

Cause the guy's a major pain in the ass. He pisses off everyone to the point where his talent doesn't even matter.

Finally, a voice of reason! Second sentence sums it up - thanks!

Winning games and Super Bowls cure everything. I'm sure if Irvin was on a losing team, we would have heard some issues. I see what you say about TO, but his performance on the field is HOF worthy. They don't let players into the HOF just because they were "nice guys".

The funny thing is that you have a guy like Art Monk, who had the numbers, but probably wasn't voted into the HOF because he didn't talk to the media.

And that's why people in the media shouldn't vote. The people voting should be made up of former players and coaches. If that was the case Monk would've got in asap. Sports writers (like Peter King) have no business voting on the HOF. I'll never forget Peter King saying Danny Weurfel would be the next Kurt Warner. What an idiot.

He's the one of the few receivers I can think of that almost single handily (or as close to single handily one can be in football) won his team a Super Bowl, and anyone knows that knows me knows thats about the highest compliment I can give a wideout.

Damn right he's a first ballot hall of famer.

Right now T.O is probably the second best receiver of all time. However I think if Fitz can get a QB one day he'll be passed by Larry. Andre Johnson will also probably surpass T.O one day. No one will ever pass Jerry.

Can anyone imagine how celebrated he would be if it wasn't for all the antics and me first attitude? He has an amazing work ethic and unlike many receivers he's willing to go over the middle, never got in trouble with the law either. Which all to often gets overshadowed by fights with teammates, feuds with QB's/coaches, and overall being a bad teammate.


Not sure if I am misunderstanding you but TO never won a superbowl that I can think of. Did you mean he did so much to get them to a superbowl?

Well some people that know a hell of a lot more football than you and I believe the HOF should focus on stats; and believe TO is a HOF'er. I'm just going by what they are saying.

Once again, I agree with some of the things that you are saying, but it is hard to ignore his numbers and how his performance on the field impacted the play of those teams. The HOF voters will make him sweat a year, but he will eventually get in.

Understood, but that's unfortunate IMO, even though I love stats. Stats just do a poor job of presenting all player contributions in a complex game like football. I actually don't disagree w/your prediction that he gets in, I just think it's a sad statement for the hall. Ultimately, I think TO was more about himself than he was about winning, and as I've stated, history backs that up. He even went to teams that were winning (philly, dallas) & still screwed things up.

If stats are to be the end all be all, all stats will have to be considered. So factor in TO's drops. To his credit he could block, don't think any stats can show that though.

Not sure if I am misunderstanding you but TO never won a superbowl that I can think of. Did you mean he did so much to get them to a superbowl?

He said almost won them a SB.

[QUOTE=Dirtbag59;808940]He's the one of the few receivers I can think of that almost single handily (or as close to single handily one can be in football) won his team a Super Bowl, and anyone knows that knows me knows thats about the highest compliment I can give a wideout.

Damn right he's a first ballot hall of famer.

Right now T.O is probably the second best receiver of all time. However I think if Fitz can get a QB one day he'll be passed by Larry. Andre Johnson will also probably surpass T.O one day. No one will ever pass Jerry.

Can anyone imagine how celebrated he would be if it wasn't for all the antics and me first attitude? He has an amazing work ethic and unlike many receivers he's willing to go over the middle, never got in trouble with the law either. Which all to often gets overshadowed by fights with teammates, feuds with QB's/coaches, and overall being a bad teammate.[/QUOTE

When did TO win a SB?