What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

Mercy upon us if we go out and give Matt Flynn a Kevin Kolb type contract. That would set us back tremendously imo. People honestly think he can replicate the mild success he's had in GB here? :doh: That's a 15-1 team coming off a Super Bowl win. We're a 5-11 team that hasn't been to the playoffs in 4 years.

So in other words, you have no real options in mind, you just want to make believe like there were better options and blame the coach. I think I debunked the 3 other options there were.If that's what you considered debunked, then sure.

But of course you would have to ignore every point I made only only focus on some arbitrary list of names.

You also then have to dismiss the options based upon your ability to stretch and beg and twists stats like you did for Hasselbeck and Grossman.

It mainly requires you turning a blind eye to the fact that Grossman finished as the 28th rated QB in the league.

Yah!, sure debunked!

Mike Shanahan made the right call to go with Rex and Beck and not address the QB position via FA or draft or trade.

Here let me give you the editted version maybe you can muster up a reply:



Why would I waste my time making a list of better options for you?

And even if I did make a list what would be the point?
You would only beg the stats just like you did when you call Hasselbeck and Grossman's season nearly identical (lol)

Rex Grossman finished as the 28th rated QB.
Your short list would include every QB that played and finished better then 28that was available during the offseason.
Then throw in the rookie QBs and other tradeable journeymen like Flynn (then) or Joe Webb for example.
That should give you a good starting point for your list.

I think the discussion needs to start with the fact that the Redskins opened the post-lockout period with Donovan McNabb on their roster, and moved him out so that they could get to Beck and Grossman.

McNabb did not use his time with Minnesota as a chance to prove that Washington made a horrible mistake by trading him, but Grossman arguably did not use the 2011 season to show he was an improvement over 2010 McNabb.

At best, we're talking about a release that allowed the Redskins to save some money and save some face by proving that they could lose games with Grossman just as easily as they could with McNabb, with mixed results at the QB position. Shanahan's assertion was that he believed in Grossman and he believed in Beck, and didn't believe in McNabb.

So, yeah, from a saving money standpoint, it worked. And the Redskins picked up a draft pick, which was nice. But when you don't replace a guy like McNabb on the roster, you're pretty clearly saying you have a better team without him there. And so the defense that the Redskins didn't have any better options ignores that this was, in every possible way, a conscious choice at the QB position to not pursue anyone else. Kellen Clemens aside.

And with Clemens and Beck both having played against San Francisco this year, that becomes even more evidence that it was Grossman and Beck, and that's how it was designed, and it had nothing to do with who was or wasn't available.

You also then have to dismiss the options based upon your ability to stretch and beg and twists stats like you did for Hasselbeck and Grossman.

It mainly requires you turning a blind eye to the fact that Grossman finished as the 28th rated QB in the league.

Yah!, sure debunked!

Mike Shanahan made the right call to go with Rex and Beck and not address the QB position via FA or draft or trade.



NFL Stats: by Player Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

Actually Rex finished 18th in terms of NFL QBs. They generally rank them based on yardage. So you want to use the QB rating to show how awful Rex was, yet when I use them, it's "stretching and twisting"?

Again, what part of signing a 36 year old QB for $21 million to throw 6 less INTs is a good idea? You think that's better or even worth that very slight upgrade? Again, you think Hasselbeck even puts those numbers up without Chris Johnson? He sure as hell didn't his last year in Seattle.

Vince Young? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I don't even need to address this.


Jake Locker. Picked ahead of us in 1st round.

Andy Dalton. Picked ahead of us in 2nd round.

You don't just pick a QB in the draft just to pick one. If you don't like them or they don't fit what you are trying to do, you pass until one comes along that does. Also, this team was lacking a ton of talent so trading up wouldn't have been a wise option.

So again, WHAT options were there? There were none. But if it suits you hatters all the more, keep on believing there were.

The whole argument he's trying to have is based in false logic.
You don't need to know the 'answer'.
Especially when he 'answer' is hypothetical and subjective.
Which only leads to the type of empty pointless back and forth:
sug1:Prospect X would have been a viable answer
repl1:No prospect X wouldn't have been a viable answer because of rationale X
then rinse-wash-repeat

If you know that part X is inferior but part X is installed in your car and your car is non-functional because part X failed you don't need to know every possible alternative to correctly state that part X failed.

You don't just pick a QB in the draft just to pick one. If you don't like them or they don't fit what you are trying to do, you pass until one comes along that does. Also, this team was lacking a ton of talent so trading up wouldn't have been a wise option.

So again, WHAT options were there? There were none. But if it suits you hatters all the more, keep on believing there were.Especially when you have John Beck and Rex Grossman already on your roster. That would just be a waste of a pick, with the fact that they're never going to see the field and all.

I mean I wish we had added a QB, namely Locker has he been available. But I get the impression a lot of people think that not adding a QB means the team just sat on its ass and made no improvements anywhere else on the roster. We're not there yet but we definitely added some key pieces.

Especially when you have John Beck and Rex Grossman already on your roster. That would just be a waste of a pick, with the fact that they're never going to see the field and all.


sorry but I agree with Tripp, Rex and Beck are so bad that anyone would have been better.

I think a clear plan of any sort always beats just winging it out there on draft day, but I wouldn't write off RG3, Bradford, and Sanchez as being basically the same thing as Flynn. Flynn played one year in college plus two games in the pros. And his college numbers at LSU don't support the illusion that are his pro stats in those two starts. Schaub's did, and that's the big difference between him. Having the college career to support the limited sample size in the pros is really important.

I really like RG3, and don't really think Bradford and Sanchez profile as no. 1 QBs at this stage of their careers, but that's different than Flynn who has been and actually still is a no. 2 guy, and is the oldest option of the bunch. If Flynn actually profiled as a number one, you'd see the Packers franchise him and then try to trade him. And that would make him by far the least appealing option of the four.

I think Griffin profiles as a no. 1 QB in the NFL as a rookie. Would you be playing a rookie? Sure. But that seems like a lot better of an option than selling the farm for Flynn just because the QB position is a weakness.

I'm not saying they're all the same, just that none of those options are nearly as safe as say, signing drew brees or drafting luck would be. sanchez is the only one i'd be REALLY mad about, and i do agree that paying someone $8mill+ on the hope they work out isn't as appealing as getting RGIII from a cap/efficiency standpoint.

If we want RGIII or luck, we're going to have to trade up most likely though, and if we trade down we might miss the 2nd tier guy we'd like... we're bad enough that I'd rather not have a 2nd tier prospect. so if you can't get RGIII or bradford for sure, there better be a FA already in the fold. if they whiff on a QB in the draft, paying out the ... will pretty much be the only option beyond stinking it up again with rex next year.


btw, we should sign victor cruz :P just saying...

NFL Stats: by Player Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

Actually Rex finished 18th in terms of NFL QBs. They generally rank them based on yardage. So you want to use the QB rating to show how awful Rex was, yet when I use them, it's "stretching and twisting"?Um yeah, YOU need to listen to your own advice.
Rex finished 18th when sorted for yardage.
He's 28th when sorted for QB rating.

I don't even need to address this.You don't need to address it because you suggested it, not me.

Jake Locker. Picked ahead of us in 1st round.True, but if you consider trading up an option you can count him, I don't but since you mentioned it.

Andy Dalton. Picked ahead of us in 2nd round.But, he was an option they just chose not draft him in the 1st or were unable or unwilling to trade up for him in the second.


So again, WHAT options were there? There were none. But if it suits you hatters all the more, keep on believing there were.Hello?

Here is the list for the last time:

Every QB that was available in FA that finished better then 28th in NFL (e.g. Matt Moore, Alex Smith etc)

Every QB in the draft after Newton and Locker (e.g. Dalton to TJ Yates etc)

Every tradeable journeymen QB (e.g. Matt Flynn, Joe Webb etc)

All the QBs that fall into those groups mentioned above would make up the list.

To sum:
Every team that has better QB play(which is roughly 29 teams) made a more successful offseason decision at the QB position.
Even the 3 teams with worse QB play (Rams, Colts and Jags) arguably still are better off.
Unless your ready to write off a QB after less then 2 seasons the Rams and Jags have their QBs of the future.
And the Colts have changed from Painter to Dan Orlovsky who has a higher rating the Rex.
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In an effort to not sidetrack this thread anymore we can agree to disagree.
You think choosing Rex and Beck was a good decision I don't.
Can we discuss Flynn?