Dan Snyder: WP: Formula for Success Article

I didn't argue that Snyder has changed. I said that your argument is essentially circular, as it assumes what it is trying to prove, and hence is fallacious.

Snyder meddled under Shanahan? Prove it. I have seen zero evidence for this which is not just Shanahan crapping on everyone on the way out the door. Offer real evidence that is indisputably not just Shanahan spin.

You can talk about the past all you want. But until you offer evidence from the present, which you have not done despite a call for it, you are engaging in pointless rumor-mongering.The latest rumors could be just Shanahan leaving a turd on the carpet for Snyder to clean up. But after multiple coaches attesting to Snyders involvement, (even during the Gibbs 2.0 era where Gibbs and Cerrato would present their plans to Snyder for approval, which seemed a lot more benign at the time than Snyder and Cerrato acting on their own), the burden of proof that Snyder's changed is on those who would question that Snyder hasn't.

Gruden is the 8th head coach under Snyder. We know Snyder wasn't "hands off" for all but Shanahan. And whether Snyder was "hands off" with Shanny is disputed. How many times should we assume, "Yeah, he's changed this time."?

I think you see a very specific pattern in all of Snyder's time, barring Turner/Schottenheimer where he was the meddler from hell. Since Gibbs, Snyder has significantly changed, but his model is, I find one guy I trust, and then "suggest" what I want to do. Depending on the backbone of the guy he trusts depends on the level of meddling.

With Gibbs, most accounts are that while he involved himself with the players personally, football decisions were entrusted to Gibbs but Gibbs believed in a strong owner so Snyder could "meddle" some.

Cerrato, the leach was always there, and when Gibbs left Cerrato became the trusted guy. Cerrato was and I think is a spineless no nothing who pushed his agenda ahead of the best for football. And Cerrato's bad decisions gave Snyder impetus to push and be overly involved.

Shanallen, I think we finally start to see some level of backing away, where mainly Shanahan but also Allen could push ideas without direct interference. Maybe once in a while on a handful of decisions over 4 years Snyder personally intervened, but percentage wise, and over the vast numbers of decisions, where to have training camp, when Griffin played this season, who the assistant coaches were, etc etc, we didn't see Snyders hand like we did under Cerrato, and certainly not like with Turner/Schottenheimer.

Now we have Allen. Snyder absolutely trusts Allen. I hope it's trust well placed, but clearly, no move so far can be pointed to as a Snyder override of Allen's grand plan.

And SS84, way to be overly dramatic about Snyder "ruining the Skins beyond repair". I think they sell a Skins Repair kit in WalMart (aisle 5).

I don't think he has ruined it beyond repair, i'm trying to say there is nothing stopping him from doing it whether he does it deliberately or unknowingly. I think a few more cycles of coaches being fired and a team that isn't winning might be enough to forever scare away any legitimate coaches, coordinators etc.... I think Snyder is a guy who is doing things over and over again while expecting different results, even though he's done it so many times before and things haven't turned out any different. eg ) This guy didn't win, i'll fire him and the next coach will win. This coach didn't win, i'll fire him and start over. I'll fire the whole staff and start over....etc...etc...

The latest rumors could be just Shanahan leaving a turd on the carpet for Snyder to clean up. But after multiple coaches attesting to Snyders involvement, (even during the Gibbs 2.0 era where Gibbs and Cerrato would present their plans to Snyder for approval, which seemed a lot more benign at the time than Snyder and Cerrato acting on their own), the burden of proof that Snyder's changed is on those who would question that Snyder hasn't.

Gruden is the 8th head coach under Snyder. We know Snyder wasn't "hands off" for all but Shanahan. And whether Snyder was "hands off" with Shanny is disputed. How many times should we assume, "Yeah, he's changed this time."?

You just won't let go of the wrongheaded the-past-proves-the-present argument, will you?

Perhaps you are right. I shall now presume that this year is 2008 because it was 2008 before. Of course that means that you cannot comment on this post because you are not a Warpath member in 2008. It's a shame that things never change, isn't it?

I don't think he has ruined it beyond repair, i'm trying to say there is nothing stopping him from doing it whether he does it deliberately or unknowingly. I think a few more cycles of coaches being fired and a team that isn't winning might be enough to forever scare away any legitimate coaches, coordinators etc.... I think Snyder is a guy who is doing things over and over again while expecting different results, even though he's done it so many times before and things haven't turned out any different. eg ) This guy didn't win, i'll fire him and the next coach will win. This coach didn't win, i'll fire him and start over. I'll fire the whole staff and start over....etc...etc...
So instead you would rather JJ who thinks Garrett is the next Landry?

Firing a guy for not winning happens EVERY year in the NFL to around 6-8 coaches.

He's definitely NOT doing the same thing over and over, he's tried every angle for hiring a coach you could do:
bought the team:

Keep current coach - Turner [2 years]
Fire midseason hire interim (never again say i) [3 games]
hire ancient chinese secret guy (Probably his best move, and if his ego let Schottenheimer stay two more years a whole different tune would be said) [1 year]
hire best up and coming college guy (worked this yr for the iggles :( ) [2 years]
hire team legend and football legend (again, might've worked but for ST21's death and JG's son's health) [4 years and JG decision to leave]
Let fans dictate(ie not hire Fassel), and listen to trusted advisor who is an idiot(never again say i) [2 years]
hire out of work SB winning coach who wants a fresh start (this was the closest to the doing the same thing over and over, but he had to bring in a son of a legend (Allen) instead of wrapping it all up in JG) [3 1/2 of them miserable years - outlasted the other miserables by 1 1/2 years]
let GM(football guy) pick his guy, who is a sought after coordinator with a winning history and make sure the initials match a Redskins legend. (this one is the lucky one. [5+ hopefully]



my points are:
1) DS has tried every method of getting the right guy
2) the last 10 years he has shown himself more patient. The only exception is Zorn, but if he had kept Zorn into year 3 Fedex would have seen riots.

I just think it's wrong to say Snyder isn't evolving. It's just that growing into a good NFL owner rarely happens quickly.

I don't think he has ruined it beyond repair, i'm trying to say there is nothing stopping him from doing it whether he does it deliberately or unknowingly. I think a few more cycles of coaches being fired and a team that isn't winning might be enough to forever scare away any legitimate coaches, coordinators etc.... I think Snyder is a guy who is doing things over and over again while expecting different results, even though he's done it so many times before and things haven't turned out any different. eg ) This guy didn't win, i'll fire him and the next coach will win. This coach didn't win, i'll fire him and start over. I'll fire the whole staff and start over....etc...etc...

Snyder gave Shanahan everything he desired. Shanahan then put up a 24-40 record over four years, during which time Snyder patiently waited for a winner to appear. Shanahan also gave Snyder a big "F*($ You" by pointlessly benching RGIII. But Snyder is in the wrong and is just repeating past mistakes by firing Shanahan? I don't get that. Many NFL owners would have fired Shanahan given what Shanahan did and didn't do.

i thought we all came to a spontaneous and unspoken agreement not to comment on this article/thread bc we all know and are over talking about how DS sucks and loves this team like Lennie loved soft furry things ..... it almost happened.

You get 10 Harold Bloom points for the Of Mice and Men reference.