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Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

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Old 11-13-2008, 09:37 AM   #121
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

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Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post
Here's another argument against a gay marriage ban:

Right or wrong, the perception (and in some cases the reality) is that homosexuals tend to be more promiscuous than heterosexuals. So armed with that knowledge, why would we as a society try to prevent homosexuals from entering into a sacred, religious institution which promotes monogamy?
You win. That is the worst argument I think I have ever heard, for anything.
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:07 PM   #122
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

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You win. That is the worst argument I think I have ever heard, for anything.
So refute it.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:01 PM   #123
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

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So refute it.
I assume you are for banning heterosexual and very much atheist couples from getting married? What about heterosexuals in an open relationship? Cohabitating couples? God knows it's against doctrine to live with someone before you get married.

You're tethering in the brink of absurdity and in violation of so many fallacies it's difficult to list all of them. I would advice you against taking that line of argument, certainly when you are dealing with rational and intelligent people. Remember mon ami, we're playing chess not checkers. A greater emphasis in thinking is required.
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:43 PM   #124
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

Let me clarify my point since I apparently wasn't clear enough -- Many times, social and religious conservatives voice their disapproval of homosexuality because of the perception that they are too promiscuous, that they have a hand in spreading disease. If they truly believe this, then they should be for gay marriage since that will take at least some of the people they have such big a problem with and put them in a relationship which promotes the values of monogamy.

If this is such an absurd argument that is loaded with fallacies then by all means, post them and maybe I will be proven wrong.

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Old 11-13-2008, 06:51 PM   #125
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

I miss read your post, my bad. Please excuse my feeble brain, it works in mysterious ways at times.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:51 AM   #126
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

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I miss read your post, my bad. Please excuse my feeble brain, it works in mysterious ways at times.
Ditto. The internets are a fickle master. I thought you were saying that the perception of promiscuity created a fact that could be the basis for an argument. I get what you are saying now.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:57 AM   #127
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

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Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post
Let me clarify my point since I apparently wasn't clear enough -- Many times, social and religious conservatives voice their disapproval of homosexuality because of the perception that they are too promiscuous, that they have a hand in spreading disease. If they truly believe this, then they should be for gay marriage since that will take at least some of the people they have such big a problem with and put them in a relationship which promotes the values of monogamy.

If this is such an absurd argument that is loaded with fallacies then by all means, post them and maybe I will be proven wrong.
Beems, your take here assumes that there is some sort of logical and rational basis behind those that are against gay marriage. Let's cut to the chase and call it like it is. Religious wackos and ignorant homophobes are the problem, simple as that.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:26 AM   #128
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

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Beems, your take here assumes that there is some sort of logical and rational basis behind those that are against gay marriage. Let's cut to the chase and call it like it is. Religious wackos and ignorant homophobes are the problem, simple as that.
I've repeatedly stated my opinions on this issue, in this thread. I've provided my rationale respectfully, while being insulted multiple times. Your post is just the latest example of anyone who holds a conservative point of view being the enemy. While this is a football fan site, the parking lot has always, to me, been its saving grace. When the football talk degrades to unbearable levels I still come back to what has routinely been intelligent and entertaining off topic discussion. Over the last 6 months I've noticed a sharp turn in the tone of discussion where those with left-leaning views are given time while the more conservative members are either shouted down or, by viewing the tone taken with others, encouraged not to post at all. So while I will miss many portions of this site, I cannot in good conscience continue to support something that to me is a shadow of what it once was. To be clear, this is my last post.

Matty, if at all possible, delete my account. If not, simply leave it dormant. Thank you and Hail to the Redskins.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:51 AM   #129
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

Given time? Encouraged not to post at all? This asynchronous forum, you give yourself time and if someone doesn't agree with you move on. Apparently you're moving on and taking your ball with you too. I can't speak for the mods but this is all getting into the Cancel Your Own Goddam Subscription territory.


Happy Thanksgiving, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. I wish you the best in life. Bleeding Burgundy until the day I die. Hail to the Redksins!

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Old 11-14-2008, 10:57 AM   #130
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

I've said this a few times, I lean conservative in many respects. And I know that puts me in the minority when it comes to the more active voices on this site. It's true the conservative voices are often dismissed and ridiculed on this site. Some deservedly so, like Buster. Others, such as FRPLG, should be heard and respected. But there's no denying the pervailing tone here is left-leaning. (though curiously not so much, when you actually ask people how they lean on specific issues). I probably wouldn't go so far as "encouraged not to post" That makes it sound like the mods are suggesting if they post they will be banned, or some such action would be taken against them. That's just not going to happen.

I consider myself religious, I believe in God, I pray, I'm not a wacko. I have nothing against gays. I know gays. Some of my best friends are gay (yeah I went there with that). And I think they should get benefits. I think it's ridiculous that say irish and offiss can truly love each other, move in together, spend 10 years together and should, God forbid, anything happen to one of them the other won't get the same benefits that say Gmanc and Dynamite Rave could get should they decide to elope after one night of drunken debauchery at the Bellagio. To me, it seem backwards.

But I think understand Beem's point and I think more than that, we shouldn't be so quick to always thrown in the word "Whacko" when talking about religion. If you're not religious and you don't believe in it that's fine, but I don't think there's a need to generalize.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:01 AM   #131
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

Well said, SS.

This is a difficult issue to discuss, since the underpinning of the conservative argument is usually rooted in faith (i.e., homosexuality is "fundamentally" immoral). So, to attack the argument is usually to attack the faith, which does not tend to end well.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:47 AM   #132
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

Sorry I'm not going to apologize for having an opinion, and I've never discouraged anyone from doing the same. My comments on 'religious wackos and ignorant homophobes' was meant as a general statement (and I was not trying to say that everyone who is religious is a wacko), and not pertaining to anyone here specifically. So if anyone misconstrued that and took it personally, I apologize for the misunderstanding.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:17 PM   #133
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

I think the reality of Prop 8 is that it was actually done in by the media's desire to see Obama elected President. Here me out now. Normally the mainstream media would have done numerous stories on the referendum, all showing the homosexuals in the best possible light and the opponents as paranoid weirdos. Instead they mostly ignored it, only doing a few stories on the money aspect of the vote, very late in the race. Why would they do this? Beause the conventional wisdom in those circles is that John Kerry lost in part because several of these initiatives were on the ballot across the country. The media figured that if people made any sort of connection between Obama and Prop 8 it may hurt him in swing states like Virginia, Ohio etc. They may have even been told this explicitly by the Obama campaign. "We don't want to get tied into the prop 8 thing".
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Old 11-14-2008, 01:02 PM   #134
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

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I think the reality of Prop 8 is that it was actually done in by the media's desire to see Obama elected President. Here me out now. Normally the mainstream media would have done numerous stories on the referendum, all showing the homosexuals in the best possible light and the opponents as paranoid weirdos. Instead they mostly ignored it, only doing a few stories on the money aspect of the vote, very late in the race. Why would they do this? Beause the conventional wisdom in those circles is that John Kerry lost in part because several of these initiatives were on the ballot across the country. The media figured that if people made any sort of connection between Obama and Prop 8 it may hurt him in swing states like Virginia, Ohio etc. They may have even been told this explicitly by the Obama campaign. "We don't want to get tied into the prop 8 thing".
You are absolutely right. It got zero national coverage and Obama stayed away from the issue as if it was going to set him on fire if he didn't. It has been said though that most new voters that voted for Obama voted against Prop 8.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:14 PM   #135
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Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

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You are absolutely right. It got zero national coverage and Obama stayed away from the issue as if it was going to set him on fire if he didn't. It has been said though that most new voters that voted for Obama voted against Prop 8.

I'm glad we have found some commom ground.
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