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Police Execution?

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Old 01-14-2009, 07:38 PM   #46
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Re: Police Execution?

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
The guy is being charged with murder.

Speaking of sentencing guidelines, there's a district attorney in New York that want to change the laws on the book nation wide so that drunk drivers that kill someone get charged with murder. What I really don't get is why we don't currently do that?
Dude why don't we do what most 1st world nations do and simply confiscate the car (for good) and revoke the person's license for a minimum 10 years when someone is caught drunk driving? If we had a zero tolerance policy the fatalities would plummet.
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:12 AM   #47
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Re: Police Execution?

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What I mean is why is it not murder if you get piss drunk, get in the car and kill someone but if you get piss drunk and shoot your wife in the head it is? Why is being drunk a valid excuse when we all know drinking and driving can result in a fatality?
Because when you get in a car piss drunk and drive around you're being ridiculously dangerous but there is no reasonable shred of intent. When you shoot someone piss drunk it also isn't necessarily murder either (see Jayson Williams). If you intend to shoot someone and kill them it's murder and your being drunk is irrelevant. If you intend to drive a car at someone and kill them it is murder and being again would be irrelevant. But if you drive drunk or handle a gun drunk and you kill someone accidently or out of plain negligence then it is manslaughter. Fine line I guess but society has deemed the two acts differently.
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:19 AM   #48
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Re: Police Execution?

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Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
Dude why don't we do what most 1st world nations do and simply confiscate the car (for good) and revoke the person's license for a minimum 10 years when someone is caught drunk driving? If we had a zero tolerance policy the fatalities would plummet.
I don't think you're right about that. Most of my research does show differnces between common US sanctions for drunk driving and the rest of the world but I didn't find any that went any where near as far as you described and the differences were relatively small. In fact our laws tended to be right in line with the rest of the world.

But I agree we should have sanction stougher on the order of 5x what they are now. We should have a basic no tolerance policy.
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:19 AM   #49
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Re: Police Execution?

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
What I mean is why is it not murder if you get piss drunk, get in the car and kill someone but if you get piss drunk and shoot your wife in the head it is? Why is being drunk a valid excuse when we all know drinking and driving can result in a fatality?
Under that scenario, should you be charged with murder if you fatally hit somebody in a crosswalk and have a blood alcohol level of .08? As I understand it, that is a common "drunk" level set by most states in regard to ability to drive. AND as I understand it, .08 to the average size male is about 1.5 drinks in the course of an hour > <. Did the 1.5 drinks you had cause you to hit the person in the intersection?
Murder?

BTW, I cannot imagine WHY three cops need to shoot ANYBODY to subdue them. three? Looks way bad for them. However, all details are not available yet, and they deserve their day in court
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:55 PM   #50
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Re: Police Execution?

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I don't think you're right about that. Most of my research does show differnces between common US sanctions for drunk driving and the rest of the world but I didn't find any that went any where near as far as you described and the differences were relatively small. In fact our laws tended to be right in line with the rest of the world.

But I agree we should have sanction stougher on the order of 5x what they are now. We should have a basic no tolerance policy.
Not so sure about Canada but for instance my mother lived in Japan off and on for years and witnessed the zero tolerance policy there. Again, vehicle permanently confiscated and loss of driving privilege for years. When I lived in Europe (mostly Germany) in '98 I was pretty shocked at how serious the drunk driving laws were taken. I know I heard mention of permanently revoked license... never heard of such a thing in the US.
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Old 01-15-2009, 01:00 PM   #51
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Re: Police Execution?

It's not to hard to figure out the lack of zero tolerance. Lot's of green involved......$$$$$.
Good lobbyist's, and lots of cash crossing political hands
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Old 01-15-2009, 01:14 PM   #52
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Re: Police Execution?

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Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
Not so sure about Canada but for instance my mother lived in Japan off and on for years and witnessed the zero tolerance policy there. Again, vehicle permanently confiscated and loss of driving privilege for years. When I lived in Europe (mostly Germany) in '98 I was pretty shocked at how serious the drunk driving laws were taken. I know I heard mention of permanently revoked license... never heard of such a thing in the US.
Japan and Germany are two drastically different cultures and lands then ours. Both places have much smaller land masses, and mass transit is readily available and useful.

one other thing, it is interesting that in this thread started basically to highlight abuse of police authority, we are now discussing whether they should have the power of license revocation. Remember police have HUGE discretion on who they pull over and for what they use as a reason. A short story: when I was an MP in Germany riding with a senior partner one friday night, the partner would sit at a particular corner and wait for people to forget a turn signal or some other minor indiscretion so he could pull them over. He just wanted to find anyone he could to hassle, and if they were over the limit great. He was one of the guys who turned me away from cops or staying as a policeman in the civilian sector. Did he ever really set someone up, or falsify a report, I don't think so, but if he knew he could keep someone off the road that he didn't like, I think he wouldn't hesitate. I know that's not every officer, but in my experience it was enough of them.
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Old 01-15-2009, 02:11 PM   #53
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Re: Police Execution?

Japan has the toughest from what I can find. Everywhere else has about the same as us. Tighter in some ways and looser in others.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:28 AM   #54
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Re: Police Execution?

Well, according to the Jury it(the BART train shooting) was Involuntary Manslaughter. 2-4 year prison sentence with a possibility of up to 10 years added for use of a firearm in commission of the offense.

Ex-officer convicted in Calif. train killing - Yahoo! News

It was the least finding of guilt the jury could have found him guilty of, and there was either 0 or 1 black member of the jury. Not really sure how to think on this one.
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:49 PM   #55
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Re: Police Execution?

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Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
Not so sure about Canada but for instance my mother lived in Japan off and on for years and witnessed the zero tolerance policy there. Again, vehicle permanently confiscated and loss of driving privilege for years. When I lived in Europe (mostly Germany) in '98 I was pretty shocked at how serious the drunk driving laws were taken. I know I heard mention of permanently revoked license... never heard of such a thing in the US.
Move to Virginia.
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:59 PM   #56
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Re: Police Execution?

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I bet the judge stacks the other ten years on top. I did not sit through the trial so I really cannot comment. The thing that gets me is blacks kill blacks all day long all year long and there is little to no outrage from the community (just look at the Michael Vick birthday shooting as an example) but this happens ever so many years and there is outrage and riots. Maybe if they showed the same outrage at all the killings day in and day out it might save more young black children from dying. They also go to the effort to not help police when a black kill a black and I just wonder when will the outrage over this ever come.
You have said this several times here, but I think you are wrong, or atleast hype it up in your own mind more than the facts bear out. I lived in the south side of Chicago for several months, and attended a black Baptist church where many young black men's lives had been lost/ruined/destroyed, and that community weeped for every one. Does it make nightly news - no, do riots start when injustice is done - no (mainly because it's not the "man" doing it, but the realization that it is within the community), but they sure as heck mourn, and are outraged at the destruction of a heritage.
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:00 PM   #57
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Re: Police Execution?

We will never know if there was actual intent to murder...as long as he servers the max I'm cool with the verdict.
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:51 PM   #58
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Re: Police Execution?

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I bet that weeping is very local and within the community that the killing took place. I'm talking more of a national voice of rage for the continued killing of black young men everyday. The black leaders are fast to jump up when these cop things happen but they don't seem to have that rage and desire to stop the real problem that cause 1000's of more deaths.
You are just wrong FD, the national black leadership does have roots in every community, with active chapters that strive to turn the black youth away from destructive lifestyles. Doesn't mean I agree with the national black leadership, but to dismiss their efforts in urban communities, and to demean the rage frustration and sadness that is a real part of urban living, misses a whole understanding of where the cultural gap comes from and begins.
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:01 PM   #59
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Re: Police Execution?

He wears the badge, he wants respect, he executes in cold blood on video. It is still not enough evidence for some people. Some people just don't care because it was was a white cop and a black guy. No matter, it balances out Karma wise. It always does.
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Old 11-05-2010, 04:16 PM   #60
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Re: Police Execution?

Man, where did JTF and TTE go???

The officer was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to 2 years.
Ex-BART officer Mehserle sentenced to two years in prison for fatal shooting of unarmed man | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times
Fair or not???
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