North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?

CRedskinsRule · 04-09-2013, 11:20 PM

numbers aren't everything, but they do say somethings:

NC_Skins · 04-09-2013, 11:38 PM

In sign of Chinese frustration with North Korea, ‘Daily Show’ clip mocking Kim racks up 2.8 million Chinese views

Jon Stewart wins again.

Alvin Walton · 04-10-2013, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

numbers aren't everything, but they do say somethings:

That chart looks like it was made by a high school student and is about as accurate.
If North korea has 700 fighter jets then my name is Alice Cooper.
Also to note is that some of the hyped up F-22s and B-2s that were out there are back in the US and they are grounded becaue of the sequestartiatationtartersaucetion crapola.

CRedskinsRule · 04-10-2013, 09:41 AM

The F-22's aren't back from SK, and the B-2's for SK defense are not grounded.

The chart was published in the Australian newspaper, and is accurate to Jane's Weapons guide.

Alvin Walton · 04-10-2013, 10:17 AM

The US Air Force says otherwise.

The grounding includes F-22s from the 1st Fighter Wing's 94th Fighter Squadron at Joint Base Langley-Eustis, Va. The squadron is returning from a deployment to the Pacific where airmen participated in a high-profile exercise in South Korea.
Reduced flying hours forces grounding of 17 USAF combat air squadrons | Air Force Times | airforcetimes.com

And mentioning some Australian newspaper as a source creates neagative credibility AFAIC.

CRedskinsRule · 04-10-2013, 10:35 AM

To correct myself the specific unit that was in SK is due back, but we still have operational F22's:

(from your article)

F-22

94th Fighter Squadron — Grounded April 9 - [this was the unit in SK]

27th Fighter Squadron — Basic mission capable through September

3rd Fighter Wing — Two squadrons combat mission ready through September

15th Wing — One squadron combat mission ready through September

49th Wing — One squadron combat mission ready through September

BigHairedAristocrat · 04-10-2013, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

In sign of Chinese frustration with North Korea, ‘Daily Show’ clip mocking Kim racks up 2.8 million Chinese views

Jon Stewart wins again.

LOL, i'll have to watch that clip when i go home. Some interesting comments from the linked WP article:

Quote:

It is true that the North Korean military is very big, one of the world’s largest standing armies: 1.1 million troops! 4,200 tanks! 820 fighter jets!... Even the military’s size and political backing, though, can’t make up for North Korea’s isolation and impoverishment. Most of those fighter jets, for example, will never take off because the regime can’t afford enough fuel to fill them up. Even if they could somehow procure enough jet fuel, the fighters “would have been shot out of the sky in the first few hours of a conflict,” Dartmouth professor and North Korea-watcher Jennifer Lind told NPR recently. The tanks, likewise, are old and inferior.

CRedskinsRule · 04-10-2013, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

The US Air Force says otherwise.

The grounding includes F-22s from the 1st Fighter Wing's 94th Fighter Squadron at Joint Base Langley-Eustis, Va. The squadron is returning from a deployment to the Pacific where airmen participated in a high-profile exercise in South Korea.
Reduced flying hours forces grounding of 17 USAF combat air squadrons | Air Force Times | airforcetimes.com

And mentioning some Australian newspaper as a source creates neagative credibility AFAIC.

How does Australia create negative credibility? They are relatively neutral, shaded pro-US. Your open bias in all things military amazes me.

Alvin Walton · 04-10-2013, 11:15 AM

You dont provide a link and you just mentioned something about Australia....
Why not a credible American source?
And I'll reiterate that the above jpeg is a crap.
And yea....I'm going to be highly critical of anything anyone says about the military in this forum.
I am very much a civilian armchair general, no doubt.
However all things military have been my hobby most of my life.
With a couple tangible exceptions I have access to the same info all of you have.
The difference might be that I've been reading a ton of it for a long time.
As have my friends and family members.
So my bullshit alarm goes off very easily.

CRedskinsRule · 04-10-2013, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

You dont provide a link and you just mentioned something about Australia....
Why not a credible American source?
And I'll reiterate that the above jpeg is a crap.
And yea....I'm going to be highly critical of anything anyone says about the military in this forum.
I am very much a civilian armchair general, no doubt.
However all things military have been my hobby most of my life.
With a couple tangible exceptions I have access to the same info all of you have.
The difference might be that I've been reading a ton of it for a long time.
As have my friends and family members.
So my bullshit alarm goes off very easily.

My dad was a highly decorated AF officer, served in Vietnam, very proud of him. I was in Civil Air Patrol at Andrews for all of my teen life, 13 -22, was leader of a regional CAP drill team, conducted search and rescue sorties, served both as cadet commander, and on the senior executive staff. Served in the Army 5 years. I have been reading a ton my whole life too.
I am proud of our military generally, but also see us as a world policeman, and understand that there is another view of the US that sees our policies as overbearing and hypocritical.

What specifically do you dispute in the jpeg. The data is valid and accurate
the link for the whole story is North Korea seen moving missile | News.com.au and I purposely used a non-US source, so that it would be LESS likely to be claimed to be biased.

edit: deleted one paragraph, probably to pejorative.

CRedskinsRule · 04-10-2013, 11:49 AM

Here is a Library of Congress country study on NK, start at page 245 (p. 285 in my Adobe reader) for a list of NK units as of 2009, Honestly I thought the chart gave a nice clean breakdown, and don't really even understand what you are disputing about it, it was just a base info sheet

Alvin Walton · 04-10-2013, 12:19 PM

For starters that jpeg uses some of the most recent goofy pictures of NK buffonery.
Makes me not want to read it at all. How can it be taken seriously?

The B-2s are not there, neither are the F-22s.
The warship quantity should re-written as 47 "warboats".
They are barely worth mentioning as they will all dissapear in the first 10 days if things got real bad.
700 fighters? Total bullshit.
Even if you wittled that down to 300, most of them are 1960s technology.
Some left over from the original war and I'd venture that all of them are dependent on ground control during combat.
They still use MiG-17s. You see more of those in airshows than you do in someones military.
That jpeg is meant to impress complete laymen.

Alvin Walton · 04-10-2013, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Here is a Library of Congress country study on NK, start at page 245 (p. 285 in my Adobe reader) for a list of NK units as of 2009, Honestly I thought the chart gave a nice clean breakdown, and don't really even understand what you are disputing about it, it was just a base info sheet

Looks interesting but I cant load that here at work on this crappy PC.
I'll take a look at it when I get home.

CRedskinsRule · 04-10-2013, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

For starters that jpeg uses some of the most recent goofy pictures of NK buffonery.
Makes me not want to read it at all. How can it be taken seriously?

The B-2s are not there, neither are the F-22s.
The warship quantity should re-written as 47 "warboats".
They are barely worth mentioning as they will all dissapear in the first 10 days if things got real bad.
700 fighters? Total bullshit.
Even if you wittled that down to 300, most of them are 1960s technology.
Some left over from the original war and I'd venture that all of them are dependent on ground control during combat.
They still use MiG-17s. You see more of those in airshows than you do in someones military.
That jpeg is meant to impress complete laymen.

I didn't mean it to do more than just give a ball park comparison, which I think it did nicely. Sorry it doesn't do it for you.

Alvin Walton · 04-10-2013, 01:12 PM

Meh......their air force and navy are not the concern anyways AFAIC.

Nukes
Chemical weapons
Their large artillery force.
Their large mobile infantry.

Those are the four things I would be worried about most.

04-09-2013, 11:20 PM	#151
CRedskinsRule MVP Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Pasadena, Md Age: 46 Posts: 11,571	Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer? numbers aren't everything, but they do say somethings:

04-09-2013, 11:38 PM	#152
NC_Skins Franchise Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,547	Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer? In sign of Chinese frustration with North Korea, ‘Daily Show’ clip mocking Kim racks up 2.8 million Chinese views Jon Stewart wins again. __________________ "So let me get this straight. We have the event of the year on TV with millions watching around the world... and people want a punt, pass, and kick competition to be the halftime entertainment?? Folks, don't quit your day jobs."- Matty

04-10-2013, 09:41 AM	#154
CRedskinsRule MVP Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Pasadena, Md Age: 46 Posts: 11,571	Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer? The F-22's aren't back from SK, and the B-2's for SK defense are not grounded. The chart was published in the Australian newspaper, and is accurate to Jane's Weapons guide.

04-10-2013, 10:17 AM	#155
Alvin Walton Playmaker Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Holland, Michigan Posts: 3,911	Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer? The US Air Force says otherwise. The grounding includes F-22s from the 1st Fighter Wing's 94th Fighter Squadron at Joint Base Langley-Eustis, Va. The squadron is returning from a deployment to the Pacific where airmen participated in a high-profile exercise in South Korea. Reduced flying hours forces grounding of 17 USAF combat air squadrons \| Air Force Times \| airforcetimes.com And mentioning some Australian newspaper as a source creates neagative credibility AFAIC. __________________ REDSKINS FAN SINCE 1968 CHARTER MEMEBER OF THE DALLAS SWEEPERS CLUB

04-10-2013, 10:35 AM	#156
CRedskinsRule MVP Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Pasadena, Md Age: 46 Posts: 11,571	Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer? To correct myself the specific unit that was in SK is due back, but we still have operational F22's: (from your article) F-22 94th Fighter Squadron — Grounded April 9 - [this was the unit in SK] 27th Fighter Squadron — Basic mission capable through September 3rd Fighter Wing — Two squadrons combat mission ready through September 15th Wing — One squadron combat mission ready through September 49th Wing — One squadron combat mission ready through September

04-10-2013, 11:15 AM	#159
Alvin Walton Playmaker Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Holland, Michigan Posts: 3,911	Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer? You dont provide a link and you just mentioned something about Australia.... Why not a credible American source? And I'll reiterate that the above jpeg is a crap. And yea....I'm going to be highly critical of anything anyone says about the military in this forum. I am very much a civilian armchair general, no doubt. However all things military have been my hobby most of my life. With a couple tangible exceptions I have access to the same info all of you have. The difference might be that I've been reading a ton of it for a long time. As have my friends and family members. So my bullshit alarm goes off very easily. __________________ REDSKINS FAN SINCE 1968 CHARTER MEMEBER OF THE DALLAS SWEEPERS CLUB

04-10-2013, 11:49 AM	#161
CRedskinsRule MVP Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Pasadena, Md Age: 46 Posts: 11,571	Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer? Here is a Library of Congress country study on NK, start at page 245 (p. 285 in my Adobe reader) for a list of NK units as of 2009, Honestly I thought the chart gave a nice clean breakdown, and don't really even understand what you are disputing about it, it was just a base info sheet

04-10-2013, 12:19 PM	#162
Alvin Walton Playmaker Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Holland, Michigan Posts: 3,911	Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer? For starters that jpeg uses some of the most recent goofy pictures of NK buffonery. Makes me not want to read it at all. How can it be taken seriously? The B-2s are not there, neither are the F-22s. The warship quantity should re-written as 47 "warboats". They are barely worth mentioning as they will all dissapear in the first 10 days if things got real bad. 700 fighters? Total bullshit. Even if you wittled that down to 300, most of them are 1960s technology. Some left over from the original war and I'd venture that all of them are dependent on ground control during combat. They still use MiG-17s. You see more of those in airshows than you do in someones military. That jpeg is meant to impress complete laymen. __________________ REDSKINS FAN SINCE 1968 CHARTER MEMEBER OF THE DALLAS SWEEPERS CLUB

04-10-2013, 01:12 PM	#165
Alvin Walton Playmaker Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Holland, Michigan Posts: 3,911	Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer? Meh......their air force and navy are not the concern anyways AFAIC. Nukes Chemical weapons Their large artillery force. Their large mobile infantry. Those are the four things I would be worried about most. __________________ REDSKINS FAN SINCE 1968 CHARTER MEMEBER OF THE DALLAS SWEEPERS CLUB

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?

Debating with the enemy