Obama Care

firstdown · 06-23-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

No, no, no, no it's not. You are assuming that the other 277 million citizens are going to choose private health care, which is quite obviously not the case.

AND, i hate to be a dick about this, because you do get piled on here but- $65 billion divided by 30 million people is roughly $2,166 per person, not $2 billion per person. Just a bit of a mistatement there.

Just look at the mandated health ins. in Massachusetts which many say is very close to the Obama plan and their problem getting the healthy people to sign up for the plan. See what happens is that the goverment program they have to take the sick and the people who cannot get affordable coverage in the private market. That drives up the cost thus healthy people go out and find cheaper rates in the private sector and now Massachusetts program has gone from 633 million to 930 million in just 2 short years. Its only going to get worse for them and its one of the problems with Obama's plan. You can also look to Ca. and their problems from expanding goverment over the years and thats where the nation is headed.

firstdown · 06-23-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

Because they have policies about airing "controversial" ads. Read the article SS posted.

Either way, it seems your concern is putting your thoughts into the heads of the sheep, when your concern should be the sheep themselves. If everyone thought critically, propaganda would have no use.

I support more critical thinking, and less propaganda. Seems you prefer the opposite.

You mean those sheep who follow Obama and can never see anything wrong that the king might say or do. Sheep, that's how he got elected and all those bus full of people they shipped to the voting booth and gave them directions on how to vote. Bahhhhhhhhhh

Trample the Elderly · 06-23-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

If so, then you should be agreeing with me. Since it is apparently the only way your broke ass is going to get healthcare. Also, i'm no pharmacist, but what exactly are the medicinal properties of spaghetti and meatballs?

Don't go assuming things. My company offers health insurance. I used to have Anthem, but when an old lady blind-sided me they told me that my full coverage insurance didn't cover emergency room visits. I don't have health insurance for a reason, it's a racket.

I'm not broke either. It's just that after I'm finished paying for my own way through life (plus taxes) there's not much left over for bums and rich progressives who don't have to work for a living. I can afford to buy health insurance but why should I? When I really need it they'll tell me I'm not covered.

Let me spell it out for you. If you're so concerned for the poor and sick why don't you get off your ass and go and help them yourself? If that's not direct enough, how about you mind your own business and stop trying to get a free lunch. That's what this all boils down to. You and every other do-gooder stick your noses in other people's business and get upset when we don't like it.

BleedBurgundy · 06-23-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

Just look at the mandated health ins. in Massachusetts which many say is very close to the Obama plan and their problem getting the healthy people to sign up for the plan. See what happens is that the goverment program they have to take the sick and the people who cannot get affordable coverage in the private market. That drives up the cost thus healthy people go out and find cheaper rates in the private sector and now Massachusetts program has gone from 633 million to 930 million in just 2 short years. Its only going to get worse for them and its one of the problems with Obama's plan. You can also look to Ca. and their problems from expanding goverment over the years and thats where the nation is headed.

That makes my head hurt. If it's driving up the cost of govt care, and the result is healthy people get cheaper insurance from the private sector... how is this bad again? And if that's the case, and healthy folks are getting cheaper insurance, they would naturally stop using the gov plan, so why then has the plan increased from 630 -930 m? That doesn't pass the sniff test. Got a link?

BleedBurgundy · 06-23-2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Don't go assuming things. My company offers health insurance. I used to have Anthem, but when an old lady blind-sided me they told me that my full coverage insurance didn't cover emergency room visits. I don't have health insurance for a reason, it's a racket.

I'm not broke either. It's just that after I'm finished paying for my own way through life (plus taxes) there's not much left over for bums and rich progressives who don't have to work for a living. I can afford to buy health insurance but why should I? When I really need it they'll tell me I'm not covered.

Let me spell it out for you. If you're so concerned for the poor and sick why don't you get off your ass and go and help them yourself? If that's not direct enough, how about you mind your own business and stop trying to get a free lunch. That's what this all boils down to. You and every other do-gooder stick your noses in other people's business and get upset when we don't like it.

lol. Look, i'm far, far, far from wealthy. But i don't mind paying out a bit extra if it means everyone gets to see the doctor. Me working to pay that bit extra is me "getting off my ass." Not sure there's a free lunch anywhere in this scenario since it's all being paid for by the taxpayer, i.e. you and I. I'm not going to comment on your personal decisions as to why not to carry any sort of health insurance, but for your sake I hope you don't run into a situation where you need it. AND- for the first time ever, i agree with you that health insurance is somewhat of a "racket." Which does nothing so much as make the case for it to be supervised and regulated by the gov, more so than it already is.

BleedBurgundy · 06-23-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

You mean those sheep who follow Obama and can never see anything wrong that the king might say or do. Sheep, that's how he got elected and all those bus full of people they shipped to the voting booth and gave them directions on how to vote. Bahhhhhhhhhh

I voted McCain for what it's worth, but a good idea is a good idea.

tryfuhl · 06-23-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

This kind of stuff isn't new -- it's been happening for a long time. Have you always been opposed to it, or just now that a Democrat is in office?

A challenger appears!

Trample the Elderly · 06-23-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

lol. Look, i'm far, far, far from wealthy. But i don't mind paying out a bit extra if it means everyone gets to see the doctor. Me working to pay that bit extra is me "getting off my ass." Not sure there's a free lunch anywhere in this scenario since it's all being paid for by the taxpayer, i.e. you and I. I'm not going to comment on your personal decisions as to why not to carry any sort of health insurance, but for your sake I hope you don't run into a situation where you need it. AND- for the first time ever, i agree with you that health insurance is somewhat of a "racket." Which does nothing so much as make the case for it to be supervised and regulated by the gov, more so than it already is.

You don't have to confirm what I already know. You don't want to do it yourself. You trust the government to do it for you. Do you honestly believe that the Federal "There's nothing wrong with Fannie Mae" Government is going to make things better?
It may be just a little bit for you, but for guys that are just getting by, a little bit here and there adds up. When people tell me they're going to help me or this is for my own good, it usually means I'm getting f**ked. Thanks, I'll pass if given I can.

tryfuhl · 06-23-2009, 04:35 PM

We pay for snotty ass kids to go to school and a bevy of other things. People should be talking about death taxes, investment taxes, property taxes, etc way before we're talking about preserving good health. We should be discussing gross overspending that does nothing to help the population.

People's angers are misdirected.

firstdown · 06-23-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

That makes my head hurt. If it's driving up the cost of govt care, and the result is healthy people get cheaper insurance from the private sector... how is this bad again? And if that's the case, and healthy folks are getting cheaper insurance, they would naturally stop using the gov plan, so why then has the plan increased from 630 -930 m? That doesn't pass the sniff test. Got a link?

Because it the tax payers with the private plans that still have to pay higher taxes to subsidies the goverment program. The healthy people never got on the goverment plan in the first place. I'll have to post a link tomorrow because I'm heading to a cook out.

Schneed10 · 06-23-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

That's a new phrase I haven't heard before. And from the cost perspective? You're in the business of cost analysis...which would you prefer to pay for? Elective-preventative care or emergency care?

Almost the same exact question as BB. Please see response here:

http://www.thewarpath.net/parking-lo...tml#post564269 (Obama Care)

Slingin Sammy 33 · 06-23-2009, 05:06 PM

FWIW

Health-Care Myths at Emac’s Stock Watch | Fox Business

Also, ever heard of Comparative Effectiveness Research. It's already funded in the Spendulus Bill, to the tune of $ 1.1B. Sounds like a good idea, research the most cost-effective treatments....not so fast. CER boards are used in countries with socialized medicine (oops sorry sounds too sinister, Universal Health Care) to ration health care and determine what treatments may be used and given to whom. Those of you with grandparents or parents in their 60s+ better pay attention because treatments such as heart valve replacements, hip replacements, etc. are denied to the elderly in many cases. If I'm full of partisan BS, why have the GOP senators drafted the following bill to stop exactly what is already happening in countries with socializ.....Universal Health Care.

CNSNews.com - GOP Senator Offers Bill to Prohibit Health-Care Rationing Based on Obama's 'Comparative Effectiveness Research'

Is this the type of control we want to give to government bureacrats? Not me. Bottom line is there aren't a tremendous amount of uninsured in this country, less than 10% and at least 1/3 of them make over $ 50K per year.

CRedskinsRule · 06-23-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

You don't have to confirm what I already know. You don't want to do it yourself. You trust the government to do it for you. Do you honestly believe that the Federal "There's nothing wrong with Fannie Mae" Government is going to make things better?
It may be just a little bit for you, but for guys that are just getting by, a little bit here and there adds up. When people tell me they're going to help me or this is for my own good, it usually means I'm getting f**ked. Thanks, I'll pass if given I can.

Trample, I am glad you can continue the argument. Me, I am convinced that the mob will believe whatever the government feeds them, regardless of real world examples in other large (not sweden/finland) countries shows. An increased government healthcare system is bad, it will be bad and our children will suffer for it. But, like so many already do, our children will continue believing in an America that no longer exists. One where personal responsibility, local government and community take precedence over big government solutions

saden1 · 06-23-2009, 05:48 PM

This has been long time coming...there is no stopping this. All those bogus knock-down talking points are toothless. Please believe that all your bases are belong to us.

Trample the Elderly · 06-23-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

This has been long time coming...there is no stopping this. All those bogus knock-down talking points are toothless. Please believe that all your bases are belong to us.

The way people feel isn't a talking point. Your grammar conjugation is almost as bad as First Down's spelling.

06-23-2009, 04:35 PM	#54
tryfuhl Gamebreaker Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Waldorf, MD Age: 29 Posts: 12,512	Re: Obama Care We pay for snotty ass kids to go to school and a bevy of other things. People should be talking about death taxes, investment taxes, property taxes, etc way before we're talking about preserving good health. We should be discussing gross overspending that does nothing to help the population. People's angers are misdirected.

06-23-2009, 05:06 PM	#57
Slingin Sammy 33 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 4,202	Re: Obama Care FWIW Health-Care Myths at Emac’s Stock Watch \| Fox Business Also, ever heard of Comparative Effectiveness Research. It's already funded in the Spendulus Bill, to the tune of $ 1.1B. Sounds like a good idea, research the most cost-effective treatments....not so fast. CER boards are used in countries with socialized medicine (oops sorry sounds too sinister, Universal Health Care) to ration health care and determine what treatments may be used and given to whom. Those of you with grandparents or parents in their 60s+ better pay attention because treatments such as heart valve replacements, hip replacements, etc. are denied to the elderly in many cases. If I'm full of partisan BS, why have the GOP senators drafted the following bill to stop exactly what is already happening in countries with socializ.....Universal Health Care. CNSNews.com - GOP Senator Offers Bill to Prohibit Health-Care Rationing Based on Obama's 'Comparative Effectiveness Research' Is this the type of control we want to give to government bureacrats? Not me. Bottom line is there aren't a tremendous amount of uninsured in this country, less than 10% and at least 1/3 of them make over $ 50K per year. __________________ ...[If] an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything]....you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' — Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.

06-23-2009, 05:48 PM	#59
saden1 Eternally Legendary Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Age: 33 Posts: 9,734	Re: Obama Care This has been long time coming...there is no stopping this. All those bogus knock-down talking points are toothless. Please believe that all your bases are belong to us. __________________ RG3, RGIII, RG三, RG३, RGγʹ, RGג, RG٣, RG๓, RG..., RG셋, RGԳ!

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Obama Care

Debating with the enemy