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Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Old 03-18-2010, 03:04 PM   #151
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly View Post
Over the Mountain:

What you proscribe to Federalist doesn't make sense to me? It's an oxymoron.

State's rights is a cause of the old right not the neo-con movement. As Saden has pointed out. It was the Federalist Hamilton that wanted a centralized bank. He also wanted a Pax Americana.

The old right that today constitutes the few conservative / libertarians out there, distrust central banks today as much as they did then. They saw it coming. We're living through the consequences today.

To have a single currency is good for the Republic. That is Federalist. I agree. Allowing private bankers to take over the monetary policy of the United States from the Treasury is nothing short of treason. For the government to issue through decree that only dollars can be used is an abuse of power. It is beyond Federalism. That is dictatorial.

As a follower of the tenants of the old right, I subscribe more to Jefferson than to Adams, Hamilton, or Madison. I don't understand how I can be a Federalist when I loathe the Federal government?

Perhaps I should dust off my Federalist Papers. Get back to you in a week.
Seems to me Jefferson was a federalist when it suited him...and today we are all thankful for it.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:15 PM   #152
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Seems to me Jefferson was a federalist when it suited him...and today we are all thankful for it.
Of course he was. He was a lover of liberty when it suited him too. That never stopped him from buying, selling, and sleeping with slaves.

The point of ommiting Jefferson I believe, is because of his anti-federalist & revolutionary leanings. The Neo-cons in Texas don't want people to question the government, especially since they stand a chance of returning to power.

Your Plato-esque way of denying things and contradicting everyone never proves your own points Saden.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:47 PM   #153
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Of course he was. He was a lover of liberty when it suited him too. That never stopped him from buying, selling, and sleeping with slaves.

The point of ommiting Jefferson I believe, is because of his anti-federalist & revolutionary leanings. The Neo-cons in Texas don't want people to question the government, especially since they stand a chance of returning to power.

Your Plato-esque way of denying things and contradicting everyone never proves your own points Saden.
I don't have to do much TTL because you do a pretty good job sticking your foot in your mouth. I mean, you just basically blasted the founders and labeled them self-serving SOBs while often claiming moral high ground on what we can, can't or should do as a nation in your posts.

Even Thomas Jefferson, whome you lean towards, has betrayed you...time to get off this rock TTL.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:50 PM   #154
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Over the Mountain:

I don't understand how I can be a Federalist when I loathe the Federal government?

Perhaps I should dust off my Federalist Papers. Get back to you in a week.
When i studied federalists in law school we focused on the old founding father guys like james madison and state rights, etc. my older brother was president of a federalist society chapter in CA for awhile too. with that said, i cant speak about central banks and hamilton as i dont know.

but your last part is right per my understanding and what i posted before; federalists dont want a big federal gov't and believe local gov't should govern most things. where did i say differently?

you want to talk about hypocrites? how can federalists be for state rights as their founding principle but today, modern federalists want a federal law mandating abortion as illegal? ive asked a bunch of federalists this and they usually take off their federalist/state rights hat and put on their conservative "but its a life" hat.
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:04 PM   #155
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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I don't have to do much TTL because you do a pretty good job sticking your foot in your mouth. I mean, you just basically blasted the founders and labeled them self-serving SOBs while often claiming moral high ground on what we can, can't or should do as a nation in your posts.

Even Thomas Jefferson, whome you lean towards, has betrayed you...time to get off this rock TTL.
I'm a cynic Saden, not a know-it-all like you.

Napoleon Bonaparte said, "A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights."

I ask you. How are the legal rights of a Republic not self serving? From my point of view, a person's rights and interests are the same thing.

I'm not beholden to the Founding Fathers, as they themselves were not to the crown. The ideals that they championed are larger than the flawed people that we all are. Yes, even you Saden.
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:07 PM   #156
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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When i studied federalists in law school we focused on the old founding father guys like james madison and state rights, etc. my older brother was president of a federalist society chapter in CA for awhile too. with that said, i cant speak about central banks and hamilton as i dont know.

but your last part is right per my understanding and what i posted before; federalists dont want a big federal gov't and believe local gov't should govern most things. where did i say differently?

you want to talk about hypocrites? how can federalists be for state rights as their founding principle but today, modern federalists want a federal law mandating abortion as illegal? ive asked a bunch of federalists this and they usually take off their federalist/state rights hat and put on their conservative "but its a life" hat.
I wouldn't call that conservative. I'd say that's neo-conservative. There's nothing about reproductive rights in the Constitution, therefore, it is the right of the States IE: the people to decide for themselves.

Perhaps we are getting our terms confused, like Liberalism and Classical Liberalism?
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:16 PM   #157
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

You know I am usually very in the middle and try to be calm about some things, but this I just won't stand for.

Our education sucks, especially in history, because it is a constant push to prove "American exceptionalism," or this idea that the U.S. started great, was always great, continues to be great, and was never wrong, bad or selfish in any of its exploits. It's unrealistic.

I'm tired of it. Guess what? The United States has been one of the most notorious countries in exploiting other countries and paving the way for Neocolonialsm, which is not taking over other people's land but controlling them through economic and political pressure. We have mingled in other countries' problems for years with assassinating other leaders, staging coups and involving itself in other people's politics for our own good. Want to know why some countries don't like us? It's not because they are jealous of our freedom or status; it's how we have been involved in other countries underhandedly and manipulating them.

Has the US done great things? Yes it has! But, there is this concept that if you talk about these things, you aren't patriotic. That is completely just untrue.

Second, one of the earlier posters talked about how there is this liberal bias everywhere: the news, the media, Hollywood, entertainment, etc. This is complete bullshit. This boogieman just needs to die. CNN is way more fair and balanced than Fox News or MSNBC ever will be.

To pick on FoxNews for a bit, I remember during the Tea Party rallies how an earlier one boasted great attendance and one that happened a few months later didn't have many people(both were marches on the capitol of I remember). FoxNews used clips from the earlier one (the one with more people) for the one that happened later (the one with less people).

That is agenda pushing guys, pure and simple. I'm not asking news to be perfect; that is unreasonable. But if I knew a news source was willing to switch different video and different pictures and different statistics, I would not trust them. But, people on the right are fine with this because it's "fair and balanced." Can you tell me how? IF you acknowledge they did that, which they did, they can't be fair and balanced.

People just don't want to accept the fact that America is not some pie in the sky country, and any time someone goes to correct that, ignorant people come out of the woodwork more than willing to defend historical rewriting because we are theoretically leftist and moving a bit more to the right will put us in the center.

These makes our kids stupid. This makes us stupid. We are moving to more and more globalization. The technology that will come out in the next 20 or 30 years will only increase this trend. But, with all of our kids thinking America is a deity because of their historical education, how will they operate with other people? How will they understand why there are pockets of people who can't stand us?
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:34 PM   #158
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Originally Posted by Bushead View Post
You know I am usually very in the middle and try to be calm about some things, but this I just won't stand for.

Our education sucks, especially in history, because it is a constant push to prove "American exceptionalism," or this idea that the U.S. started great, was always great, continues to be great, and was never wrong, bad or selfish in any of its exploits. It's unrealistic.

I'm tired of it. Guess what? The United States has been one of the most notorious countries in exploiting other countries and paving the way for Neocolonialsm, which is not taking over other people's land but controlling them through economic and political pressure. We have mingled in other countries' problems for years with assassinating other leaders, staging coups and involving itself in other people's politics for our own good. Want to know why some countries don't like us? It's not because they are jealous of our freedom or status; it's how we have been involved in other countries underhandedly and manipulating them.

Has the US done great things? Yes it has! But, there is this concept that if you talk about these things, you aren't patriotic. That is completely just untrue.

Second, one of the earlier posters talked about how there is this liberal bias everywhere: the news, the media, Hollywood, entertainment, etc. This is complete bullshit. This boogieman just needs to die. CNN is way more fair and balanced than Fox News or MSNBC ever will be.

To pick on FoxNews for a bit, I remember during the Tea Party rallies how an earlier one boasted great attendance and one that happened a few months later didn't have many people(both were marches on the capitol of I remember). FoxNews used clips from the earlier one (the one with more people) for the one that happened later (the one with less people).

That is agenda pushing guys, pure and simple. I'm not asking news to be perfect; that is unreasonable. But if I knew a news source was willing to switch different video and different pictures and different statistics, I would not trust them. But, people on the right are fine with this because it's "fair and balanced." Can you tell me how? IF you acknowledge they did that, which they did, they can't be fair and balanced.

People just don't want to accept the fact that America is not some pie in the sky country, and any time someone goes to correct that, ignorant people come out of the woodwork more than willing to defend historical rewriting because we are theoretically leftist and moving a bit more to the right will put us in the center.

These makes our kids stupid. This makes us stupid. We are moving to more and more globalization. The technology that will come out in the next 20 or 30 years will only increase this trend. But, with all of our kids thinking America is a deity because of their historical education, how will they operate with other people? How will they understand why there are pockets of people who can't stand us?
Your sooooo right . How dare the USA defeat the moral - sweet Nazi's . And how dare we nuke that poor , wizard -of - oz peaceful like island , Japan . How dare we have a bill of rights , fight to free oppressed people all over the globe ... not god bless America ............. . As far as our schools teach our kids that the USA is better than everyone else ... BULLSHIT !! The only history they teach our kids .. the US started slavery, which is BS < Eygpt/Arabia > , and we are the only country to use nukes , i.e .... we are the evil empire . Our schools do suck in many areas , and as long as liberals are running our schools and universities we will continue to propaganda will be on the menu . If our schools teach this USA is " the great " as you say .... why do so many of these spoiled brats bitch and cry and burn the American Flag so often ??? Why do so many have that Robin hood " entitlement mentality ? We are to spoiled and selfish , maybe even too damn greedy , but the " rest of the world" has its demons too . Which country funds the UN at 70 % ....not Russia, France ,Germany or China . Which country is leading the effort in Haiti ... Venezuela and Cuba ? I do not think we are better than anyone , but save the we are the most evil , mean blah, blah blah crap ... please
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:52 PM   #159
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Originally Posted by Bushead View Post
You know I am usually very in the middle and try to be calm about some things, but this I just won't stand for.

Our education sucks, especially in history, because it is a constant push to prove "American exceptionalism," or this idea that the U.S. started great, was always great, continues to be great, and was never wrong, bad or selfish in any of its exploits. It's unrealistic.

I'm tired of it. Guess what? The United States has been one of the most notorious countries in exploiting other countries and paving the way for Neocolonialsm, which is not taking over other people's land but controlling them through economic and political pressure. We have mingled in other countries' problems for years with assassinating other leaders, staging coups and involving itself in other people's politics for our own good. Want to know why some countries don't like us? It's not because they are jealous of our freedom or status; it's how we have been involved in other countries underhandedly and manipulating them.

Has the US done great things? Yes it has! But, there is this concept that if you talk about these things, you aren't patriotic. That is completely just untrue.

Second, one of the earlier posters talked about how there is this liberal bias everywhere: the news, the media, Hollywood, entertainment, etc. This is complete bullshit. This boogieman just needs to die. CNN is way more fair and balanced than Fox News or MSNBC ever will be.

To pick on FoxNews for a bit, I remember during the Tea Party rallies how an earlier one boasted great attendance and one that happened a few months later didn't have many people(both were marches on the capitol of I remember). FoxNews used clips from the earlier one (the one with more people) for the one that happened later (the one with less people).

That is agenda pushing guys, pure and simple. I'm not asking news to be perfect; that is unreasonable. But if I knew a news source was willing to switch different video and different pictures and different statistics, I would not trust them. But, people on the right are fine with this because it's "fair and balanced." Can you tell me how? IF you acknowledge they did that, which they did, they can't be fair and balanced.

People just don't want to accept the fact that America is not some pie in the sky country, and any time someone goes to correct that, ignorant people come out of the woodwork more than willing to defend historical rewriting because we are theoretically leftist and moving a bit more to the right will put us in the center.

These makes our kids stupid. This makes us stupid. We are moving to more and more globalization. The technology that will come out in the next 20 or 30 years will only increase this trend. But, with all of our kids thinking America is a deity because of their historical education, how will they operate with other people? How will they understand why there are pockets of people who can't stand us?
Yes and . . . what country hasn't done those things? Name one. You actually think CNN and FOX are different from each other. They're one in the same, controlled by the NWO.
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:04 PM   #160
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Yes and . . . what country hasn't done those things? Name one. You actually think CNN and FOX are different from each other. They're one in the same, controlled by the NWO.
And you believing in the fairy tale called NWO tells me enough from where you are coming from.

There is no country that has never done anything bad, but it is important to add that into the conversation regardless. Way to use the straw man to your advantage.
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:06 PM   #161
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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And you believing in the fairy tale called NWO tells me enough from where you are coming from.

There is no country that has never done anything bad, but it is important to add that into the conversation regardless. Way to use the straw man to your advantage.
I thought that he was being facetious
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:06 PM   #162
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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And you believing in the fairy tale called NWO tells me enough from where you are coming from.

There is no country that has never done anything bad, but it is important to add that into the conversation regardless. Way to use the straw man to your advantage.
Sure, because it's the same as the old world orders: Rome & Britian
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:16 AM   #163
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Your sooooo right . How dare the USA defeat the moral - sweet Nazi's . And how dare we nuke that poor , wizard -of - oz peaceful like island , Japan . How dare we have a bill of rights , fight to free oppressed people all over the globe ... not god bless America ............. . As far as our schools teach our kids that the USA is better than everyone else ... BULLSHIT !! The only history they teach our kids .. the US started slavery, which is BS < Eygpt/Arabia > , and we are the only country to use nukes , i.e .... we are the evil empire . Our schools do suck in many areas , and as long as liberals are running our schools and universities we will continue to propaganda will be on the menu . If our schools teach this USA is " the great " as you say .... why do so many of these spoiled brats bitch and cry and burn the American Flag so often ??? Why do so many have that Robin hood " entitlement mentality ? We are to spoiled and selfish , maybe even too damn greedy , but the " rest of the world" has its demons too . Which country funds the UN at 70 % ....not Russia, France ,Germany or China . Which country is leading the effort in Haiti ... Venezuela and Cuba ? I do not think we are better than anyone , but save the we are the most evil , mean blah, blah blah crap ... please
Please point to where in my post I say these things don't occur or should not be talked about. The whole way I said it needs to have both parts of it, and stay away from just pure American Exceptionalism where the US does nothing wrong.

Second of all, you stereotyping all of the US students as "spoiled brats [that] bitch and cry and burn the American flag so often" is ridiculous. I tried to find how many flag burning incidents there have happened in the US but I couldn't find any concrete statistics, but regardless, it doesn't happen very often. Hell, from what I could find, it barely happens!

Lastly, I never said other countries didn't have demons. Once again, I wanted the US to be shown in a true light; we do great things, we do bad things.

So, the next time you reply, please actually respond to what I'm saying instead of taking the argument into your own corner without actually responding to what I said, which is what I did in this post.
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:36 AM   #164
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

I wonder if Texas is going to re-write history and erase the choke job UT just pulled in the tourney tonight.
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Old 03-19-2010, 05:30 AM   #165
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

Bushead ,Your qoute >"Our education sucks, especially in history, because it is a constant push to prove "American exceptionalism," or this idea that the U.S. started great, was always great, continues to be great, and was never wrong, bad or selfish in any of its exploits". It's unrealistic. That would be unrealistic , I do not see or hear the " exceptionalsim " as you stated , all I ever hear is we / USA are the "rotten apples" . I just think we are far less bad than good , and are told to feel ashamed or feel guilt about being Americans . Your quote > The United States has been one of the most notorious countries in exploiting other countries and paving the way for Neocolonialsm, which is not taking over other people's land but controlling them through economic and political pressure. We have mingled in other countries' problems for years with assassinating other leaders, staging coups and involving itself in other people's politics for our own good. Want to know why some countries don't like us? It's not because they are jealous of our freedom or status; it's how we have been involved in other countries underhandedly and manipulating them.
There may be some truth to this , but every country acts in its best interest , as far as assassinating leaders , who are they ? I would be happy if we took out Chaves , I have a friend in the Foreign Service , serving in Caracas . He cannot believe how bad Chaves treats the people and controls media .
Your quote >People just don't want to accept the fact that America is not some pie in the sky country ... I do not know a single person that believes that statement . No country is perfect , no town , village or family is perfect . As far as spoiled brats that I mentioned , look at youtube ... look up war protesters , these are the same kids who are pissed off at 16 becase they didn't get a brand new BMW . They cry about the cost of school < mom & dad are paying , not the kid > , then they act like everyone owns them someting and that they are smarter than everyone . I have seen these kids spit in the face a young soldiers and ROTC students a million times , just because MSNBC/ABC , ect do not report it , does not mean it doesn't happen .

Last edited by budw38; 03-19-2010 at 06:34 AM.
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