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Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Old 03-17-2010, 02:30 PM   #76
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan View Post
Did the Roman Empire fall before or after 1066? That my friend is when Christianity was forced upon the British by descendants of Vikings living in modern day France off the WWII famous coast of Normandy.
The ignorance displayed by this statement is proof of my initial point. Do you know when the Roman Empire established itself in England? Do you know when monastaries were established in modern day england? Ever heard of Lindesfarne (without googling it)? The Saxons were Christians well before the Normans landed.

Read a f'ing book idiot.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:32 PM   #77
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

JR, you usually show more restraint. whats got you fired up?
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:34 PM   #78
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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The ignorance displayed by this statement is proof of my initial point. Do you know when the Roman Empire established itself in England? Do you know when monastaries were established in modern day england? Ever heard of Lindesfarne (without googling it)? The Saxons were Christians well before the Normans landed.

Read a f'ing book idiot.
If my memory serves me well, the Vikings themselves invaded England to raid the monastaries.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:35 PM   #79
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Christians did save many works which may have been destroyed in the fall of Rome.

However, ancient Christians also burned the books of Aristotle and Plato, indirectly helping to launch the so-called "Dark Ages." The only reason we still have many of these ancient Greek philosophical classics is because they were saved and studied by medieval Muslims. Of course, Muslims have since burned other books, such as "The Satanic Verses."

I'm agreeing with you, tryfuhl.
And I agree with you too. As I said, religion (whether muslim, christianity, hinduism or many others) has been used by men for evil purposes. It has also passed considerable benefits to civilization. If you choose to focusing on the bad, and ignore the good - so be it, that is your choice. Just don't pretend that good did not happen.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:41 PM   #80
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

This my friend is how Europe escaped the Dark Ages. This answers the question why do we use the Arabic Number system instead fo the monastery number system (which includes zero), and also the reason all known stars of antiquity have Arabic names.


In his book titled, "Spain In The Modern World," James Cleuge explains the significance of Cordova in Medieval Europe:

"For there was nothing like it, at that epoch, in the rest of Europe. The best minds in that continent looked to Spain for everything which most clearly differentiates a human being from a tiger." (Cleugh, 1953, p. 70)

During the end of the first millennium, Cordova was the intellectual well from which European humanity came to drink. Students from France and England traveled there to sit at the feet of Muslim, Christian and Jewish scholars, to learn philosophy, science and medicine (Digest, 1973, p. 622). In the great library of Cordova alone, there were some 600,000 manuscripts (Burke, 1978, p. 122).

Hahahahahaha! monks had one book.


This rich and sophisticated society took a tolerant view towards other faiths. Tolerance was unheard of in the rest of Europe. But in Moorish Spain, "thousands of Jews and Christians lived in peace and harmony with their Muslim overlords." (Burke, 1985, p. 38) The society had a literary rather than religious base. Economically their prosperity was unparalleled for centuries. The aristocracy promoted private land ownership and encouraged Jews in banking. There was little or no Muslim prostelyting. Instead, non-believers simply paid an extra tax!

"Their society had become too sophisticated to be fanatical. Christians and Moslems, with Jews as their intermediaries and interpreters, lived side by side and fought, not each other, but other mixed communities." (Cleugh, 1953, p. 71)
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:41 PM   #81
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

Kind of hard to give credit for preserving something which they horded and denied to others. Especially when they chose what to preserve and what to destroy based upon how well it meshed with their teachings and subsequent control of the masses. I'm not picking on Christianity. This goes for all organized religion. What I'm saying is that as an organization, their good works were largely self serving. Just my opinion. Love the philosophy of Christianity, but you can keep the "magic."
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:43 PM   #82
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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JR, you usually show more restraint. whats got you fired up?
Sorry. It is the general christian bashing and judging the good works of the many by the misdeeds of the minority that has me worked up a bit. Plus, what appears to be the hypocracy of those who accuse Christians of ignoring history and then turn around and make blatantly historically inaccurate statements.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:47 PM   #83
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan View Post
This my friend is how Europe escaped the Dark Ages. This answers the question why do we use the Arabic Number system instead fo the monastery number system (which includes zero), and also the reason all known stars of antiquity have Arabic names.


In his book titled, "Spain In The Modern World," James Cleuge explains the significance of Cordova in Medieval Europe:

"For there was nothing like it, at that epoch, in the rest of Europe. The best minds in that continent looked to Spain for everything which most clearly differentiates a human being from a tiger." (Cleugh, 1953, p. 70)

During the end of the first millennium, Cordova was the intellectual well from which European humanity came to drink. Students from France and England traveled there to sit at the feet of Muslim, Christian and Jewish scholars, to learn philosophy, science and medicine (Digest, 1973, p. 622). In the great library of Cordova alone, there were some 600,000 manuscripts (Burke, 1978, p. 122).

Hahahahahaha! monks had one book.



This rich and sophisticated society took a tolerant view towards other faiths. Tolerance was unheard of in the rest of Europe. But in Moorish Spain, "thousands of Jews and Christians lived in peace and harmony with their Muslim overlords." (Burke, 1985, p. 38) The society had a literary rather than religious base. Economically their prosperity was unparalleled for centuries. The aristocracy promoted private land ownership and encouraged Jews in banking. There was little or no Muslim prostelyting. Instead, non-believers simply paid an extra tax!

"Their society had become too sophisticated to be fanatical. Christians and Moslems, with Jews as their intermediaries and interpreters, lived side by side and fought, not each other, but other mixed communities." (Cleugh, 1953, p. 71)
Both false and unfair. Monasteries were the great libraries of Europe outside of Moorish Spain. For just one example, if you have ever heard of Aesop's fables, those tales were preserved from multiple sources over centuries by Christian monasteries.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:47 PM   #84
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan View Post
This my friend is how Europe escaped the Dark Ages. This answers the question why do we use the Arabic Number system instead fo the monastery number system (which includes zero), and also the reason all known stars of antiquity have Arabic names.


In his book titled, "Spain In The Modern World," James Cleuge explains the significance of Cordova in Medieval Europe:

"For there was nothing like it, at that epoch, in the rest of Europe. The best minds in that continent looked to Spain for everything which most clearly differentiates a human being from a tiger." (Cleugh, 1953, p. 70)

During the end of the first millennium, Cordova was the intellectual well from which European humanity came to drink. Students from France and England traveled there to sit at the feet of Muslim, Christian and Jewish scholars, to learn philosophy, science and medicine (Digest, 1973, p. 622). In the great library of Cordova alone, there were some 600,000 manuscripts (Burke, 1978, p. 122).

Hahahahahaha! monks had one book.


This rich and sophisticated society took a tolerant view towards other faiths. Tolerance was unheard of in the rest of Europe. But in Moorish Spain, "thousands of Jews and Christians lived in peace and harmony with their Muslim overlords." (Burke, 1985, p. 38) The society had a literary rather than religious base. Economically their prosperity was unparalleled for centuries. The aristocracy promoted private land ownership and encouraged Jews in banking. There was little or no Muslim prostelyting. Instead, non-believers simply paid an extra tax!

"Their society had become too sophisticated to be fanatical. Christians and Moslems, with Jews as their intermediaries and interpreters, lived side by side and fought, not each other, but other mixed communities." (Cleugh, 1953, p. 71)
I guess they forgot the years of war and slaughter that it took to kick out the Moors. El Cid wouldn't agree with this rosy utopia that you've painted.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:48 PM   #85
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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If my memory serves me well, the Vikings themselves invaded England to raid the monastaries.
The Battle of Hastings, the Normans are descendants of Vikings. Who cares when the Saxons became Christians. Fact is the Irish did not save civilization with one freaking book. You are reaching.

That my friend is called the reason why we don't need those guys in Texas rewriting our history books.

fundamentalism = over simplification with a few fabrications thrown in there to force logical square pegs into round holes.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:49 PM   #86
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan View Post
This my friend is how Europe escaped the Dark Ages. This answers the question why do we use the Arabic Number system instead fo the monastery number system (which includes zero), and also the reason all known stars of antiquity have Arabic names.


In his book titled, "Spain In The Modern World," James Cleuge explains the significance of Cordova in Medieval Europe:

"For there was nothing like it, at that epoch, in the rest of Europe. The best minds in that continent looked to Spain for everything which most clearly differentiates a human being from a tiger." (Cleugh, 1953, p. 70)

During the end of the first millennium, Cordova was the intellectual well from which European humanity came to drink. Students from France and England traveled there to sit at the feet of Muslim, Christian and Jewish scholars, to learn philosophy, science and medicine (Digest, 1973, p. 622). In the great library of Cordova alone, there were some 600,000 manuscripts (Burke, 1978, p. 122).

Hahahahahaha! monks had one book.


This rich and sophisticated society took a tolerant view towards other faiths. Tolerance was unheard of in the rest of Europe. But in Moorish Spain, "thousands of Jews and Christians lived in peace and harmony with their Muslim overlords." (Burke, 1985, p. 38) The society had a literary rather than religious base. Economically their prosperity was unparalleled for centuries. The aristocracy promoted private land ownership and encouraged Jews in banking. There was little or no Muslim prostelyting. Instead, non-believers simply paid an extra tax!

"Their society had become too sophisticated to be fanatical. Christians and Moslems, with Jews as their intermediaries and interpreters, lived side by side and fought, not each other, but other mixed communities." (Cleugh, 1953, p. 71)
Spain, as an example of religious tolerance is an excellent example and I agree that the muslim world was the primary savior of ancient knowledge. Again, it was through adhering to the tenents of Islam that this knowledge was preserved as, at the time, knowledge was valued as a path to Allah. I am all good with that. Where Islam did not reach, Christianity, through monastaries, often served as points of learning.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:52 PM   #87
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Both false and unfair. Monasteries were the great libraries of Europe outside of Moorish Spain. For just one example, if you have ever heard of Aesop's fables, those tales were preserved from multiple sources over centuries by Christian monasteries.
And that, good sir, was my initial premise. Thank you.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:57 PM   #88
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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The Battle of Hastings, the Normans are descendants of Vikings. Who cares when the Saxons became Christians. Fact is the Irish did not save civilization with one freaking book. You are reaching.

That my friend is called the reason why we don't need those guys in Texas rewriting our history books.

fundamentalism = over simplification with a few fabrications thrown in there to force logical square pegs into round holes.
I reach for nothing, my initial premise was simply that christianity played a significant role in preserving ancient knowledge and promoting scholarship. has organized religion also (both muslim and christianity) been used in the destruction of the same? Yup.

It was your stupid, ignorant, dumb, mindless, uneducated assertion that I was wrong in this premise b/c Christianity didn't come to the British Isles until 1066 that, IMO, epitomized the smug criticism of christianity of some on this board.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:57 PM   #89
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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I think I have had my history lesson for today.
That my friend is the dag gone truth.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:02 PM   #90
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

Ok, now let's debate the validity of:

All of humanity being descended from two people, one of which was made from the other's rib. These two people lived in a wonderful garden, but were tricked into eating mystical fruit by a tricky reptile.

Magic sea creatures that swallow people without digesting them and then spit them out on the beach.

"Angels" committing genocide by murdering the first born sons of a given ethnic group.

The surface tension of water and the associated application to mideastern carpenters.

Ghosts. No really, f'ing ghosts.

Demons, Devils and the like...

Religion is not for the rational mind.
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