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Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Old 03-17-2010, 03:06 PM   #91
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

Let's try to keep things civil here and refrain from personal attacks. Threads the last few days have gotten pretty heated and personal.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:06 PM   #92
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

Give it up for scholars from Al-Andalus...no one did it bigger and better in saving the west from the dark ages. Cordoba, Granada, Seville, Toledo oh my.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:06 PM   #93
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Kind of hard to give credit for preserving something which they horded and denied to others. Especially when they chose what to preserve and what to destroy based upon how well it meshed with their teachings and subsequent control of the masses. I'm not picking on Christianity. This goes for all organized religion. What I'm saying is that as an organization, their good works were largely self serving. Just my opinion. Love the philosophy of Christianity, but you can keep the "magic."
First, not sure why you say "horded". As a general rule, I believe the books were there for anyone to use. If you have something that says to the contrary, I would be glad to review it. At the same time, it's one of those things that, until the time of Charlemagne, no one but the church thought it important to read. Charlemagne, upon his conversion to Christianity, actively sought to expand knowledge throughout his kingdom.

Again, obviously, anything can be self serving to assert that the Church's good works were "largely self serving" is a subjective opinion with which I disagree. I am not blind to the flaws, just don't think they discredit the accompanying good works.

As for "magic", I don't buy it either - but that's another story altogether.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:08 PM   #94
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Let's try to keep things civil here and refrain from personal attacks. Threads the last few days have gotten pretty heated and personal.
Just wanted to second this.

Not sure what's up recently, but yeah people are getting a little out of hand. Let's tone it down.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:11 PM   #95
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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I think you guys studied to much while I was out having too much fun.

Are you implying you can't have fun studying?
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:12 PM   #96
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

See good things don't come out of Texas: Bogus changes to history books, Jerry Jones, the Dallas Cowboys, etc., etc. LOL.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:18 PM   #97
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Ok, now let's debate the validity of:

All of humanity being descended from two people, one of which was made from the other's rib. These two people lived in a wonderful garden, but were tricked into eating mystical fruit by a tricky reptile.

Magic sea creatures that swallow people without digesting them and then spit them out on the beach.

"Angels" committing genocide by murdering the first born sons of a given ethnic group.

The surface tension of water and the associated application to mideastern carpenters.

Ghosts. No really, f'ing ghosts.

Demons, Devils and the like...

Religion is not for the rational mind.
Ever heard of symbolism and poetry - myth and legend? Perhaps these are tools to gaining a deeper understanding of that which drives the universe (if anything does).

With that said, ultimately, you believe in a universe that can be explained through finite means and that we, as humans, could fully discover if given enough time. If that is the leap of faith you wish to make - so be it.

Mine is that there is a truth beyond human understanding which we, as finite beings, can and should work to glimpse but, as finite beings (individually and corporately), can only discover through grace.

Oops. Guess I am not being rational. Silly religious me.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:22 PM   #98
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Let's try to keep things civil here and refrain from personal attacks. Threads the last few days have gotten pretty heated and personal.
If this was aimed at me or if I my words furthered this. I apologize.

JoeT - Specifically, I apologize for the "stupid, ignorant, dumb, mindless, uneducated assertion" comment. Well, except for the "uneducated" part b/c you were, in fact, wrong about your assertion.

Again, sorry to all.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:36 PM   #99
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Ever heard of symbolism and poetry - myth and legend? Perhaps these are tools to gaining a deeper understanding of that which drives the universe (if anything does).

With that said, ultimately, you believe in a universe that can be explained through finite means and that we, as humans, could fully discover if given enough time. If that is the leap of faith you wish to make - so be it.

Mine is that there is a truth beyond human understanding which we, as finite beings, can and should work to glimpse but, as finite beings (individually and corporately), can only discover through grace.

Oops. Guess I am not being rational. Silly religious me.
I think there's a balance between religion and logic that no one seems to be able to find. Ironically, I think that as human brains developed (evolution), they began to try to make sense of their surrounding, and this is where religion may have begun (just my assumption, no one bite my head off).

I do have a problem with the mixing of state and religion. This country has not suffered through the centuries of warfare (in our own soil) due to religion, and I think this is why people easily dismiss the problems with religion dictating policy.
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Stroried - Agianst

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Old 03-17-2010, 03:49 PM   #100
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Christians did save many works which may have been destroyed in the fall of Rome.

However, ancient Christians also burned the books of Aristotle and Plato, indirectly helping to launch the so-called "Dark Ages." The only reason we still have many of these ancient Greek philosophical classics is because they were saved and studied by medieval Muslims. Of course, Muslims have since burned other books, such as "The Satanic Verses."

I'm agreeing with you, tryfuhl.
Yep, vicious cycle
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:50 PM   #101
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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If this was aimed at me or if I my words furthered this. I apologize.

JoeT - Specifically, I apologize for the "stupid, ignorant, dumb, mindless, uneducated assertion" comment. Well, except for the "uneducated" part b/c you were, in fact, wrong about your assertion.

Again, sorry to all.
Which assertion about the Battle of Hastings?
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:51 PM   #102
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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I think there's a balance between religion and logic that no one seems to be able to find. Ironically, I think that as human brains developed (evolution), they began to try to make sense of their surrounding, and this is where religion may have begun (just my assumption, no one bite my head off).

I do have a problem with the mixing of state and religion. This country has not suffered through the centuries of warfare (in our own soil) due to religion, and I think this is why people easily dismiss the problems with religion dictating policy.
As to mixing religion and logic - Some religious individuals ignore the logical paradoxes created by a belief in God and some secularists say the paradoxes are prove of religion's illogic. On the other hand, many rational people see the paradoxes as posing and encapsulating questions which cannot be answered through simple finite logic. I also agree that the drive behind religion is trying to make sense of our surroundings and things we don't understand. As I have said before, at their best, both religion and science strive to find the truth.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:52 PM   #103
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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Sorry. It is the general christian bashing and judging the good works of the many by the misdeeds of the minority that has me worked up a bit. Plus, what appears to be the hypocracy of those who accuse Christians of ignoring history and then turn around and make blatantly historically inaccurate statements.
making light of things and bashing things aren't exactly the same

I've more than enough heard someone say that they'll "pray for my salvation" and to me that's no different than me saying to believe in your fairy tale
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:52 PM   #104
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

i will take this up after I flip off my way home through this traffic.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:53 PM   #105
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Re: Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

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I reach for nothing, my initial premise was simply that christianity played a significant role in preserving ancient knowledge and promoting scholarship. has organized religion also (both muslim and christianity) been used in the destruction of the same? Yup.

It was your stupid, ignorant, dumb, mindless, uneducated assertion that I was wrong in this premise b/c Christianity didn't come to the British Isles until 1066 that, IMO, epitomized the smug criticism of christianity of some on this board.
I'm more concerned about it in this 1000 years than any other millienium
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