Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Debating with the enemy


Arizona's New Immigration Law

Debating with the enemy


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-03-2010, 04:23 PM   #166
MVP
 
12thMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: washington, D.C.
Posts: 11,458
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by redsk1 View Post
Not sure I understand what the problem is. If someone is speeding, police can ask them for ID. If they are here illegally then they are in trouble.

All of the other countries of the world have consequences for illegally entering their jurisdiction. Now, most are very severe and i'd like to think we're better than countries that issue sentences like 12 years of hard labor. The fact is the US politicians really don't care who's here.

There's a process for one to gain entry to the US and we have to honor that. I'd like to think there will come a time where folks who gain access to the US actually get in some trouble or are at least sent back home.
Well, if they are legal they still have to show papers. Why should someone --anyone-- who's a legal citizen have to show papers? And if you don't see anything wrong with that, then you see nothing wrong with this law.

I'm no legal expert, not even close. But the way I understand the law, say you have 10 (or whatever number) Mexicans in front of your business loitering or just minding their own business. A citizen can pick up the phone and order a cruiser to "investigate" the situation. And if the cops refuse the police department can be sued by said citizen.
12thMan is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 05-03-2010, 04:26 PM   #167
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
Well, if they are legal they still have to show papers. Why should someone --anyone-- who's a legal citizen have to show papers? And if you don't see anything wrong with that, then you see nothing wrong with this law.

I'm no legal expert, not even close. But the way I understand the law, say you have 10 (or whatever number) Mexicans in front of your business loitering or just minding their own business. A citizen can pick up the phone and order a cruiser to "investigate" the situation. And if the cops refuse the police department can be sued by said citizen.
If they are just hanging out and breaking no laws then the cops don't have to act. I guess you need to know the loitering laws for AZ to answer your question.

This is a good read for what the cost for illegals back in 2002 so I'm guessing these numbers are low.
Center for Immigration Studies
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 04:27 PM   #168
The Starter
 
joethiesmanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,163
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
Well, if they are legal they still have to show papers. Why should someone --anyone-- who's a legal citizen have to show papers? And if you don't see anything wrong with that, then you see nothing wrong with this law.

I'm no legal expert, not even close. But the way I understand the law, say you have 10 (or whatever number) Mexicans in front of your business loitering or just minding their own business. A citizen can pick up the phone and order a cruiser to "investigate" the situation. And if the cops refuse the police department can be sued by said citizen.
On an unrelated note. Is there a statute of limitations on this? I mean suing the police for not doing their job?
__________________
BP Bush/Palin 2012
joethiesmanfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 04:33 PM   #169
MVP
 
12thMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: washington, D.C.
Posts: 11,458
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan View Post
On an unrelated note. Is there a statute of limitations on this? I mean suing the police for not doing their job?
Not sure, bro. Ask someone here from AZ.
12thMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 04:35 PM   #170
The Starter
 
joethiesmanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,163
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
If they are just hanging out and breaking no laws then the cops don't have to act. I guess you need to know the loitering laws for AZ to answer your question.

This is a good read for what the cost for illegals back in 2002 so I'm guessing these numbers are low.
Center for Immigration Studies
What's the cost of no regualtions on Wall Street 786 billion dollars.
__________________
BP Bush/Palin 2012
joethiesmanfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 04:44 PM   #171
Contains football related knowledge
 
JoeRedskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Second Star On The Right
Age: 51
Posts: 8,850
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

I admit that I have not read every post so please forgive me if I am being repetitive of things already said.

1. Every country has the right to protect the integrity of its borders. Within our country, that authority belongs to the Feds. I understand this law is simply to allow States (Arizona) to "assist" the Feds where the States (Arizona) believe the Feds have failed to expend appropriate resources, BUT it seems to me that, at some level, there is an impermissible preemption. (Feds: You aren't enforcing the law the way we think it should be - therefore, we will enforce it our way). If this is the case, the Feds could (I think) have the law annulled in Federal court. I haven't heard anything about this and am not sure why, for those who oppose the law, this hasn't been pursued. Further, if the State is simply "enforcing" Federal law, the Feds (i.e. Dems) could change the Fed law such that the State's actions no longer coincide with the Federal mandate.

2. It's a thorny issue, it's being played for politics by both sides.

3. Historically, this country has grown stronger by assimilating immigrants and their cultures into the "melting pot". I don't know how long they have been this way, but I checked into how to become a "legal" immigrant into this country. It is extremely difficult.


4. I know it is difficult in other countries too, but, for me, that arguement falls into the "two wrongs don't make it right" category. Yes, Mexico is extremely repressive in its admission of immigrants and, in many ways, even more difficult than the US to enter legally. So? Has that created a better society for them? OR has it halted the influx of ideas and labor that would allow them to excel in the world market?

5. Bottom line, its a balancing act, somehow we need to protect the integrity of our borders and the fundamental principles of the founding fathers while, at the same time, continuing to encourage the absorbtion of diverse of ideas and cultures and recognizing that we are the destination of choice for many seeking a better life for themselves and their families.
__________________
You aren't worth the water in my spit but, maybe, just maybe, you're worth the lead in my shotgun.
JoeRedskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 04:58 PM   #172
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by mredskins View Post
No worries and thanks for the lady liberty words. :headbange
Long time back when people were flooding to the US it was not that big of a deal because goverment was much smaller and it did not provide all the benifits. Now we have to regulate the flow because the minute someone becomes a citizen they are now eligible for all these programs. You open up these benifits to ever Tom, Dick and harry and we have a really big problems. Last time I check the benfits where going broke without all these additional people.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 04:59 PM   #173
Gamebreaker
 
CRedskinsRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pasadena, Md
Age: 47
Posts: 12,880
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

^^wow Joe, way to be totally redundant and re-hash of everything already said.

Actually that was a very good summation of the balancing act of immigration.
__________________
Dirtbag59, sending songs to oblivion 1 writer at a time.
CRedskinsRule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 05:00 PM   #174
Gamebreaker
 
CRedskinsRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pasadena, Md
Age: 47
Posts: 12,880
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
Long time back when people were flooding to the US it was not that big of a deal because goverment was much smaller and it did not provide all the benifits. Now we have to regulate the flow because the minute someone becomes a citizen they are now eligible for all these programs. You open up these benifits to ever Tom, Dick and harry and we have a really big problems. Last time I check the benfits where going broke without all these additional people.
Well, we could always look at the overspending of the federal government as the bigger wrong, but that's not this conversation.
__________________
Dirtbag59, sending songs to oblivion 1 writer at a time.
CRedskinsRule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 05:05 PM   #175
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.


Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status -- what most illegal aliens would become -- can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments.


Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent.

The source
Center for Immigration Studies
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 05:08 PM   #176
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
Well, we could always look at the overspending of the federal government as the bigger wrong, but that's not this conversation.
Actuall the growing social programs are at the root of this problem and the reason they drain our resources.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 05:08 PM   #177
Gamebreaker
 
CRedskinsRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pasadena, Md
Age: 47
Posts: 12,880
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

You've posted that same link 3 times now. Again, if you take the case to say government is overspending, that is one aspect. But to say that these people are draining our society, well right now our society is draining our society.
__________________
Dirtbag59, sending songs to oblivion 1 writer at a time.
CRedskinsRule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 05:39 PM   #178
Special Teams
 
Rainy Parade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 269
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan View Post
What's the cost of no regualtions on Wall Street 786 billion dollars.
yup! and no one's gonna prosecute those "criminals" cuz they are legal white citizens who wear ties to work and send lobbyists to DC to blow politicians under the table of thousand dollar dinners.

If you’re an average American taxpayer, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have, since 2001, cost you personally $7,334, according to the “cost of war” counter created by the National Priorities Project (NPP). They have cost all Americans collectively more than $980,000,000,000.

have they "kept us safe" or just raised another generation or 2 of people willing to die to do us harm? have they kept us safe of just lined the pockets of Halliburton and Blackwater?
Rainy Parade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 05:45 PM   #179
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
You've posted that same link 3 times now. Again, if you take the case to say government is overspending, that is one aspect. But to say that these people are draining our society, well right now our society is draining our society.


Well did you even look at the stats that the article provided? So we should just let more people drain the system even more?
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 05:49 PM   #180
Special Teams
 
Rainy Parade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 269
Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
[/B]

Well did you even look at the stats that the article provided? So we should just let more people drain the system even more?

again, seems to be okay on Wall Street where it's back to shady business as usual.

i realize we're mixing subjects here, but not really. it seems most people want to claim that they understand immigrants wanting to better their lives and it has nothing to do with racism or class warfare, just the fact that by doing it illegally, they are "draining the system" or "costing us taxpayers X-amount of dollars" and yet no one wants to treat the criminals on wall street as criminals who frauded the system.
Rainy Parade is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.46530 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25