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Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Old 05-04-2010, 11:22 AM   #211
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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There we go...the Halliburton argument.

Do you realize Clinton gave contracts to them also, or that they are one of 2 or 3 companies in the world that do certain types of work that was required in Iraq?

Of course not...the facts will make you regret your t-shirt and bumper sticker purchases.

yes, i DO know all of that. as i've said, govt waste and excessive military spending is a problem no matter who is in the whitehouse. but i appreciate your condescending attempt at humor with the t-shirt talk. good effort.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:25 AM   #212
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Good post, the only issue is that the "social welfare" stuff is what's bankrupting the country. The unfunded liabilities of SS, Medicare, and other social programs is what's pushing us to the brink of insolvency. We're spending more than we're taking in, it's basic math and it's unsustainable. Defense contracts can be terminiated and are only a portion of the defense budget. The biggest expediture is for manpower, and services to support the manpower.

Continuing to allowing millions of illegals into the country who will access, or evenually access, social services and vote for politicians who provide more gov't services and push us further towards European socialism is not what we need. Do you want to pay an additional 18% + tax on everything you buy....on top of your Fed and state taxes.

Once again they try to frame the argument that this is their money. Free handouts. Etc. Etc. Yuo speak as if you are basing your arguments on facts. It's only your opinion and tired philosophy of freee marketism which has become a religion. Free marketism failed miserably. Bush had to ask for 786 billion dollars. Our economy is a system there are no islands of money. I'm pissed 10 generations of free labor and these idiots have squandered it already.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:30 AM   #213
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan View Post
Once again they try to frame the argument that this is their money. Free handouts. Etc. Etc. Yuo speak as if you are basing your arguments on facts. It's only your opinion and tired philosophy of freee marketism which has become a religion. Free marketism failed miserably. Bush had to ask for 786 billion dollars. Our economy is a system there are no islands of money. I'm pissed 10 generations of free labor and these idiots have squandered it already.
:frusty:
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:40 AM   #214
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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vote for politicians who provide more gov't services and push us further towards European socialism is not what we need.
oooh, the Socialist card!! nice.
yea, i'm not an expert on European socio-political economics, and i didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn last night.... but i'm pretty sure that handing hundreds of billions of dollars to the rich elite on Wall Street is NOT socialism.

but since all the poor bastards sucking up the govt cheese on your dime have it so good, i'm sure you'd love to switch places with them.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:52 AM   #215
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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first, you dont know me or what i spend my money on. conservatives "spend my fucking money" on wasteful military spending that i dont agree with. they line the pockets of Halliburton....

do you think you are the only one who pays taxes and/or disagrees with how much of it is spent? get the fuck over yourself acting like us "liberals" are somehow "stealing" your money and "giving" it to the poor. funny how you're all pissed off claiming that "we" wont spend our money and that the illegals use services w/o paying taxes and yet you're sitting there saying YOU dont want to pay taxes either. you know, you have the option of leaving as well...
Actually, we don't. Take a look at the immigration laws in just about any country you would want to live in (Western Europe...) and you'll see that "leaving" is not much of an option, save for those with corporate sponsorship. Also, as someone who has spent a significant portion of my adult life living overseas, it's far from a bad option. I know it's a little off topic and not specific to your post, but it always gets me when people act as if living outside of the US is akin to residing in a leper colony...
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:07 PM   #216
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Actually, we don't. Take a look at the immigration laws in just about any country you would want to live in (Western Europe...) and you'll see that "leaving" is not much of an option, save for those with corporate sponsorship. Also, as someone who has spent a significant portion of my adult life living overseas, it's far from a bad option. I know it's a little off topic and not specific to your post, but it always gets me when people act as if living outside of the US is akin to residing in a leper colony...

actually, i was kinda kidding. a play on if/when anyone complained under Bush the phoney cowboys and dittoheads will tell people to "love it or leave it" or "STFU and love your country" or "if you dont like it you can leave."
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:10 PM   #217
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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oooh, the Socialist card!! nice.
yea, i'm not an expert on European socio-political economics, and i didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn last night.... but i'm pretty sure that handing hundreds of billions of dollars to the rich elite on Wall Street is NOT socialism.

but since all the poor bastards sucking up the govt cheese on your dime have it so good, i'm sure you'd love to switch places with them.
The Wall Street banks are all paying back the TARP funds to get out from gov't oversight placed on them for taking the funds.....so the Fed didn't just "hand" billions to the banks without strict conditions and oversights.

Citi, Wells Fargo to Repay Bailout Funds - WSJ.com

I don't care to have my family's future dependent on a gov't program or have my needs met by a gov't provided social service. I've seen firsthand how the private sector performs vs. gov't. But your wisecrack still doesn't address the facts I stated in my previous post or provide any solutions.....no surprise though.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:37 PM   #218
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan View Post
Once again they try to frame the argument that this is their money. Free handouts. Etc. Etc. Yuo speak as if you are basing your arguments on facts. It's only your opinion and tired philosophy of freee marketism which has become a religion. Free marketism failed miserably. Bush had to ask for 786 billion dollars. Our economy is a system there are no islands of money. I'm pissed 10 generations of free labor and these idiots have squandered it already.
Problem is, we don't really have a 'free market'. We haven't had anything of the sort for quite awhile. Government-dictated wages in the form of minimum wage laws and the Federal Reserve dictating interest rates are examples of just the opposite. Now we're hearing the idea promoted of 'maximum wages' -- the President just recently said that some of us have made "enough money."

So as you can see, it's not entirely accurate to say that "free marketism failed miserably" when we have really tried it, and in fact, things appear to be moving in precisely the other direction.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:45 PM   #219
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Problem is, we don't really have a 'free market'. We haven't had anything of the sort for quite awhile. Government-dictated wages in the form of minimum wage laws and the Federal Reserve dictating interest rates are examples of just the opposite. Now we're hearing the idea promoted of 'maximum wages' -- the President just recently said that some of us have made "enough money."

So as you can see, it's not entirely accurate to say that "free marketism failed miserably" when we have really tried it, and in fact, things appear to be moving in precisely the other direction.
Beem brings up another great point, speaking of gov't invention, the mortgage securities and housing crash were the catalyst to knock our economy down. Many of the mortgages that were made, were done so under gov't pressure/programs. These risky mortgages wouldn't normally have been taken on by the banks with normal lending/qualification criteria in place.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:55 PM   #220
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Problem is, we don't really have a 'free market'. We haven't had anything of the sort for quite awhile. Government-dictated wages in the form of minimum wage laws and the Federal Reserve dictating interest rates are examples of just the opposite. Now we're hearing the idea promoted of 'maximum wages' -- the President just recently said that some of us have made "enough money."

So as you can see, it's not entirely accurate to say that "free marketism failed miserably" when we have really tried it, and in fact, things appear to be moving in precisely the other direction.
Look at it from this angle, I see your angle. America is in decline because of socialist programs. Well I have a serious alternative view. Some say the dependence on finance as an industry is a sign of decline. The British and Dutch empires who I think are good examples evolved to this state before the big diet. Germany produces cars, the rest of Europe produces bazaar trinkets and war machines. when war is not on the table europeans don't eat. It does not matter if they are socialist or capialtist or communist. Greece produces nothing, Spain produces nothing, Portugal produces nothing. There is a reason Euope was the poorest continent before colonization. This is the reason most of europe is returning to their natural state. Goldman Sachs from what I've read don't produce products or create jobs, they set people up to fall and then laugh all the way to teh bank. It's not illegal but it is a sign of Amercian decadence. America is different we produce we have production capacity they could only dream of. Europeans need to get a job. WWIII is about to start and it has nothing to do with religion. Europeans have to eat. Got my popcorn ready. See the US is realigning our allegiances. We need beneficial partners wiht strong productive populations. Europe lacks the diversity to compete. I say stop all European immigration. Atleast latin America is worth more than a hill of beans and few tactical nukes. It's ironic how most latin american currenices are worth more than euros.
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:01 PM   #221
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan View Post
Look at it from this angle, I see your angle. America is in decline because of socialist programs. Well I have a serious alternative view. Some say the dependence on finance as an industry is a sign of decline. The British and Dutch empires who I think are good examples evolved to this state before the big diet. Germany produces cars, the rest of Europe produces bazaar trinkets and war machines. when war is not on the table europeans don't eat. It does not matter if they are socialist or capialtist or communist. Greece produces nothing, Spain produces nothing, Portugal produces nothing. There is a reason Euope was the poorest continent before colonization. This is the reason most of europe is returning to their natural state. Goldman Sachs from what I've read don't produce products or create jobs, they set people up to fall and then laugh all the way to teh bank. It's not illegal but it is a sign of Amercian decadence. America is different we produce we have production capacity they could only dream of. Europeans need to get a job. WWIII is about to start and it has nothing to do with religion. Europeans have to eat. Got my popcorn ready. See the US is realigning our allegiances. We need beneficial partners wiht strong productive populations. Europe lacks the diversity to compete. I say stop all European immigration. Atleast latin America is worth more than a hill of beans and few tactical nukes. It's ironic how most latin american currenices are worth more than euros.
Do you really believe any of this?
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:01 PM   #222
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
Beem brings up another great point, speaking of gov't invention, the mortgage securities and housing crash were the catalyst to knock our economy down. Many of the mortgages that were made, were done so under gov't pressure/programs. These risky mortgages wouldn't normally have been taken on by the banks with normal lending/qualification criteria in place.
That my friend is the result of democracy. There are alot more middle income and poor people than rich. So when they elect representatives, they are going to look out for the people who elect them.
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:02 PM   #223
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Do you really believe any of this?
Have you studied the decline of the British and Dutch empires?
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:11 PM   #224
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Do you really believe any of this?
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:13 PM   #225
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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That my friend is the result of democracy. There are alot more middle income and poor people than rich. So when they elect representatives, they are going to look out for the people who elect them.
So you believe that the poor and middle class, by virtue of having greater voting numbers, have the right to have their reps enact legislation to take private wealth/property from the "rich"?
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