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Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Old 04-29-2010, 01:22 PM   #31
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan View Post
It's a politcal ploy in that the fringe regional Republicans are attempting to force the administration to push through an immigration policy they can use as a wedge issue to siphon off independents. But it's a weak ploy, and it won't pass the Federal Court sniff test.
Really, have you read the statutes? The vast majority of them are a re-enforcement of existing Arizona and Federal law.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:24 PM   #32
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

Its kind of like breathalyzer laws. If you get pulled over for a illegal u-turn or a non-dui related issues and then a officer has a suspicion to believe you have been drinking he can require you to take a breathalyzer, in VA. In VA you have to submit to breathalyzers as part of your agreement to hold a drivers license.

So this just requires non-citizens to carry documentation papers with them at all times, but citizens do not have to. As long as police cannot approach someone or detain them on suspicion of being illegal, and as long as citizens or people the police cannot verify are illegal are immediately sent on their way I got no beef with the law. If you get stopped for doing something wrong police should be able to verify someone’s right to live here.

I remember seeing this sign when i visited CA early this year:

stock photo - Caution:Illegal Immigrant Crossing

They dont put these signs up because there isnt a serious problem going on. These states have to do something.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:25 PM   #33
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
Really, have you read the statutes? The vast majority of them are a re-enforcement of existing Arizona and Federal law.
Well what's gonna make this law enforced when the previous ones were not enforced?
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:30 PM   #34
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by mlmpetert View Post
Its kind of like breathalyzer laws. If you get pulled over for a illegal u-turn or a non-dui related issues and then a officer has a suspicion to believe you have been drinking he can require you to take a breathalyzer, in VA. In VA you have to submit to breathalyzers as part of your agreement to hold a drivers license.

So this just requires non-citizens to carry documentation papers with them at all times, but citizens do not have to. As long as police cannot approach someone or detain them on suspicion of being illegal, and as long as citizens or people the police cannot verify are illegal are immediately sent on their way I got no beef with the law. If you get stopped for doing something wrong police should be able to verify someone’s right to live here.

I remember seeing this sign when i visited CA early this year:

stock photo - Caution:Illegal Immigrant Crossing

They dont put these signs up because there isnt a serious problem going on. These states have to do something.

Why is it so urgent now and not while Bush was in office? The timing of this is fishy.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:41 PM   #35
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Go read the law so you no what your talking about. They can only question someone if they are pulled over for something else like speeding first.
This is the fact that anyone opposed to the law is voluntarily disregarding.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:44 PM   #36
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Well what's gonna make this law enforced when the previous ones were not enforced?
That's exactly the reason for the law, to enforce the immigration laws passed at a Federal level...by the State and Local law enforcement since the Feds refuse to come help. The immigration laws passed have been worthless without enforcement and follow-through. They even passed a law a few years ago to build a border fence but have not been funding the actual work.

The state has been pleading for help and been largely ignored, they need to take the situation into their own hands. Texas is doing the same thing soon.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:46 PM   #37
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Why is it so urgent now and not while Bush was in office? The timing of this is fishy.
To the people living there, it was just as urgent then.

The majority of the residents approve of this law...yet not surprisingly, politicians living 2,000 miles away in D.C. think it's a bad idea.

When the President of the United States and Congress take the side of the lawbreakers over the safety of the citizens...
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:46 PM   #38
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan View Post
Why is it so urgent now and not while Bush was in office? The timing of this is fishy.
Maybe AZ thought the Fed. Govt was going to enforce the federal laws back when Bush was in office, but now they dont believe that is the case. I also think they wanted to do it after the census, so even if this thing was in the works for a few years they would wait until the bulk of the census's where mailed back (April 15th i think). It also may be that the AZ economy is so bad the politicians need to appease their constituents (illegals cant vote) and the constant cry of "Theyre takin our jobs". Maybe all these crazy drug wars we have been hearing about in Mexico are starting to cross over into the US, and they want to stop that.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:51 PM   #39
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by mlmpetert View Post
Maybe AZ thought the Fed. Govt was going to enforce the federal laws back when Bush was in office, but now they dont believe that is the case. I also think they wanted to do it after the census, so even if this thing was in the works for a few years they would wait until the bulk of the census's where mailed back (April 15th i think). It also may be that the AZ economy is so bad the politicians need to appease their constituents (illegals cant vote) and the constant cry of "Theyre takin our jobs". Maybe all these crazy drug wars we have been hearing about in Mexico are starting to cross over into the US, and they want to stop that.
When hospitals are forced to close because illegals are coming in and costing too much to stay open...yeah, it's time to do something about it.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:54 PM   #40
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
See post # 7. One thing Obama is NOT, is stupid. I'm just a guy on a messageboard and I found the info on the law in less than 5 min. Obama knows exactly what's in/not in the statutes. What he stated is certainly not something that can reasonably be assumed to happen the way they're written. For him to make the statement he did is a purely political play.

I don't know who the "reasonable Republicans" are coming out against this law, but I'll bet it's safe to assume they're pandering to a Hispanic voting bloc in their district/state. You're absolutely correct, the security of the people of the U.S. isn't a right/left issue and I'll bet you could take a handful of members from this board, on both sides of the political spectrum, and come up with a reasonable solution to the illegal immigration issue that satisifed both sides. However, for the vast majority of politicians in DC its about power and keeping their jobs. The Hispanic voting bloc is already (or will be very shortly) the largest minority voting bloc in the country. How this issue is spun is key to gaining/losing support with a good portion of this voting bloc....so I would say there is definitely politcal advantage to be had here.
I think we agree more than we disagree after reading your post. Good post.

It's just a complicated issue and regardless of how and when you approach it, it's going to be a political issue.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:57 PM   #41
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

I highly doubt the President has actually read this bill...or most bills he talks about. If he did, he's just ignoring the facts to attack people as racists.
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:01 PM   #42
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
However, for the vast majority of politicians in DC its about power and keeping their jobs. The Hispanic voting bloc is already (or will be very shortly) the largest minority voting bloc in the country. How this issue is spun is key to gaining/losing support with a good portion of this voting bloc....so I would say there is definitely politcal advantage to be had here.
You're right.




Wait, I thought..."There are no Blue States or Red States, we should stop carving up the electorate into ethnic and racial groups" - President Obama

I guess not.
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:02 PM   #43
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
The primary point to this statute is to provide for the state to take action against any locality that refuses to enforce laws already in place. This law brings a uniform state-wide policy to bear to combat the problems that AZ has been facing for years while politicians on both sides of the aisle in DC bury their heads, while trying to appeal/not offend to the Hispanic voting bloc.

In a nutshell it makes the "sanctuary cities" liable for legal action by the state for not enforcing Federal and State of Arizona law. This I'm sure is a bigger problem in AZ than it is in VA. But I live in the sanctuary city of Virginia Beach. The previous Mayor and police chief had a policy to not report illegals to ICE, in addition to the burden illegal immigrants put on the City services (police, medical, social services) two teenage girls are dead, directly because of this policy (killed by a drunk driving illegal who had been released twice before for alcohol issues).

Here's the a link to the actual text of the statutes:

Text of Arizona's Anti-Illegal Immigration Law - Part 1 | KEYTLaw

These statutes seek enforcement not only directly against illegal immigrants but also against companies that employ them.

President Obama is making a purely political play (and he damn well knows it) in misrepresenting what these statutes contain. This isn't about racism, it's about AZ protecting the people of the state from the negative consequences of illegal immigrants. Unfortunately, the murder of the rancher was the straw that broke the camels' back.
We're all grow men, let's bring facts to the table shall we?

1. It makes sanctuary cities liable citizen lawsuits. These citizens will be suing themselves and AZ is the most broke state in the country (yes, even more broken than Cali). Some will claim they're broke because of all the welfare they provide for undocumented aliens but the real questions is how do undocumented aliens obtain these welfare services and how does this law address that issue? You must understand that these aliens have fake everything, license, social security, you name it, they have it.

2. The crime rate in Arizona has been steadily declining even with increasing population of undocumented aliens. The question is what is the basis for claiming undocumented aliens increase are the source of crime in Arizona?

3. Lord Obama is certainly politicizing? He's a politician addressing a national issue, the issue of immigration, which last I checked is a federal issue. Anywho, this Arizona law is a political play itself and that's fine. Either side is entitled to convince the public their immigration vision is right for America. I don't know how he is misrepresenting the the AZ law. I would be happy to listen what part of what he said is objectionable.

4. Looking at comparison of Arizona's 2000 and 2010 budgets I don't see how this law will fix their budget issues. They're merely going to shift their expenditure from social services to incarceration, law enforcement, going to court and deprotation (not even sure they're going to do that themselves).

5. There are many questions this law doesn't address...How are you going to determine if someone legal or illegal if they have a fake driver's license? How are you going to punish companies if all the documents they have for an undocumented worker are valid? How are you going to punish someone for providing comfort to undocumented alien if they say I didn't ask (citizens are not required to ask someone if they are documented and that's not constitutional). How are they going to deal with lawsuits from multiple fronts.
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:03 PM   #44
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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i agree....
but your previous post (and this one too kinda) implies that drunk drivers are among the people who dont like being pulled over and i think we all agree that they should be.
i assume you meant that if you have 2 beers and are not drunk, you don't need to be hassled by the cops on the off chance that you fail a breathalizer or something.....
Just don't wanna be hassled period, and it is not their right to do so. Probable cause is the rule of law. You know how many people walk because of that alone? I know the rancher got killed sorry that happend, but trying to put the entire hispanic community under duress is not right. Kinda like the excuse "we are looking for crack dealers". My question is "So what the hell you blocking the street for? go catch them mofos. What the hell you get paid to do? What have I saw? Not a damn thing, do an investigation or something. Damn, want me to do your job for you? Basically they are mad because the American citizens who can tell who is illegal or not won't do their job for them. Do some police work for crying out loud. Police always want to be the millitary, like it's not enough police work for them already.
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:08 PM   #45
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Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law

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3. Lord Obama is certainly politicizing? He's a politician addressing a national issue, the issue of immigration, which last I checked is a federal issue. Anywho, this Arizona law is a political play itself and that's fine. Either side is entitled to convince the public their immigration vision is right for America. I don't know how he is misrepresenting the the AZ law. I would be happy to listen what part of what he said is objectionable.
Holy crap. You're either VERY naive or just have selective ignorance to his statements.

He said "people trying to take their daughter out for ice cream will be asked to show papers for no reason but how they look" and directly accuses opponents of being racists.

Not only is he completely wrong (and/or dishonest) about the facts of the law, he's being racially inflammatory for the sole reason of securing a Hispanic voting block, whether they are legally entitled to vote or not. Think about it...he's opposed to a law forcing illegals to have a legal I.D. to be here. What do you need to vote? A legal I.D.

If you're a legal resident/citizen and have I.D., what are you worried about? I'd gladly have to show my I.D. a few times in exchange for a safer, more secure nation with a better economy and less crime. But of course, unlike the President's false claims, unless I'm already committing a crime, I won't have to worry about any unnecessary hassle.

How anyone can oppose this common-sense law is beyond me.
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