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Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Old 05-13-2010, 04:26 PM   #31
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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No doubt about it, they shot the dogs without hesitation. Is this standard procedure? It's fucked up...I can see a lawsuit. Get'em.
Unfortunately in the eyes of the law the only value a pet has is "replacement cost", so a lawsuit probably wouldn't work. But what they should be prosecuted for is animal cruelty violations.....good luck getting a prosecutor to go along with that, though. And yes, it's very F-ed up. I don't care to watch the video, it would infuriate me and I would wish I hadn't seen it. F these a-hole cops.
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:51 PM   #32
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Well, I just saw that video for the first time. I honestly wanted to avoid it, but I wound up seeing it on an online clip of the Andrew Napolitano show.

The video is sickening and maddening at the same time. The funny thing is, this type of raid happens about 100 times a day in America, according to reports. The libertarian CATO institute actually has a map which tells you where botched raids are taking place. For some reason, this particular video has gone viral, but it wasn't even like so many others where the police get the wrong house, or where an innocent citizen was killed.

Radley Balko of Reason Magazine has been writing on the subject of paramilitary police raids for nonviolent offenses for years. But for some reason, most people turn a blind eye to the issue; I guess it's been engrained into our psyche as though this is a normal practice.

Seeing it truly makes you ask the question -- what country is this? You'd think this is former Soviet-bloc type stuff. But it's not. This is America in the 21st century.

So much for the land of the free.
I'm glad I'm not the only one.
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:17 AM   #33
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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I'm glad I'm not the only one.
Yeah, hopefully this video will make people wake the hell up.
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:24 AM   #34
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Yeah, hopefully this video will make people wake the hell up.
doubtful.
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:22 PM   #35
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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doubtful.
In a way, you're exactly right. After all, We the People over and over elect the same politicians who will keep these policies in place. At the same time, it is a virtual certainty that any candidate who comes on the scene and is openly skeptical of the drug war doesn't stand a chance.

We get the government we deserve.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:36 AM   #36
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

7-year-old girl killed in Detroit police raid - CNN.com

the report i heard said they went in the wroing side of a duplex. this is insane, there are no excuses imo, none.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:48 AM   #37
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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In a way, you're exactly right. After all, We the People over and over elect the same politicians who will keep these policies in place. At the same time, it is a virtual certainty that any candidate who comes on the scene and is openly skeptical of the drug war doesn't stand a chance.

We get the government we deserve.
that's a sad thing. not to get too biblical, but that quote reminds me of when the Israelites had left Egypt, and by biblical accounts seen many miracles and proofs of God's guidance, but they resisted, and wanted a king like the other nations had. God basically said, you want it you got it, but know that you will have good and bad leaders, and good and bad times.(heavy paraphrase)

The US too often strives to be like "the other nations" instead of looking at what made this country strong (and jtf, I am not reminiscing about slavery, but the self determination of localities, protected from external threats by a minimal federal government)

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Old 05-17-2010, 08:50 AM   #38
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Family: 7-year-old shot by police was asleep *| ajc.com

7 Y/o Girl Killed During Detroit Police Raid | Citrus Daily - Citrus County News

a few other articles, just crazy
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:51 AM   #39
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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7-year-old girl killed in Detroit police raid - CNN.com

the report i heard said they went in the wroing side of a duplex. this is insane, there are no excuses imo, none.
I saw that in a tweet, and thought of this thread as well. Without hearing the whole story, there simply is no excuse for the murder of a 7 yo girl in a raid. SWAT/Police train for all circumstances, and shooting a 7yo ought to be treated as murder. (unless she is carrying a quantum physics book Will)
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:55 AM   #40
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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I saw that in a tweet, and thought of this thread as well. Without hearing the whole story, there simply is no excuse for the murder of a 7 yo girl in a raid. SWAT/Police train for all circumstances, and shooting a 7yo ought to be treated as murder. (unless she is carrying a quantum physics book Will)
from everything i have read/seen it looks like the went in the wrong side of a duplex. and allegedly there were people outside that told the oficers there were kids in the house, allegedly. but she was shot in the face i don't understand how that can happen these cops just sound trigger happy. i know it's a tough job but it's their job. they signed up for it
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:59 AM   #41
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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from everything i have read/seen it looks like the went in the wrong side of a duplex. and allegedly there were people outside that told the oficers there were kids in the house, allegedly. but she was shot in the face i don't understand how that can happen these cops just sound trigger happy. i know it's a tough job but it's their job. they signed up for it
What are you reading just clips from the family.

Upon entering the home, the officer encountered a 46-year-old female inside the front room, Godbee said. "Exactly what happened next is a matter still under investigation, but it appears the officer and the woman had some level of physical contact.
"At about this time, the officer's weapon discharged one round which, tragically, struck 7-year-old Aiyana Stanley Jones in the neck/head area."

The person they were after was arrested in the home:

Jones claimed the officers had the wrong house, but Godbee said in the statement the 34-year-old suspect in Blake's death was found and arrested at the home. In addition, a vehicle and a moped matching the descriptions of those involved in Blake's shooting were also found, he said.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:00 AM   #42
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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from everything i have read/seen it looks like the went in the wrong side of a duplex. and allegedly there were people outside that told the oficers there were kids in the house, allegedly. but she was shot in the face i don't understand how that can happen these cops just sound trigger happy. i know it's a tough job but it's their job. they signed up for it
A 7yo is going to be standing at knee cap level or possibly thigh. There is simply no excuse for a trained officer to take that type of shot. And no, I wasn't there, and yes heat of the moment etc, but I did do a LOT of MOUT (military ops in urban terrain) training, and that is what these guys practice day in and day out.
The only exception I could see, and we will probably never know the truth, is if the 7yo actually drew a real or toy gun.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:02 AM   #43
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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What are you reading just clips from the family.

Upon entering the home, the officer encountered a 46-year-old female inside the front room, Godbee said. "Exactly what happened next is a matter still under investigation, but it appears the officer and the woman had some level of physical contact.
"At about this time, the officer's weapon discharged one round which, tragically, struck 7-year-old Aiyana Stanley Jones in the neck/head area."

The person they were after was arrested in the home:

Jones claimed the officers had the wrong house, but Godbee said in the statement the 34-year-old suspect in Blake's death was found and arrested at the home. In addition, a vehicle and a moped matching the descriptions of those involved in Blake's shooting were also found, he said.
Regardless of if the person was in the home, you don't shoot a 7yo.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:05 AM   #44
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Interesting comment on CNN, ties into our Pot thread and how the war on drugs is a waste of time:

Winston Churchill is commonly credited with having said, "Democracy means that when there's a knock in the door at 3 am, it's probably the milkman."

One wonders what Churchill would make of modern-day, drug war America.

For the last year, I've been researching a study on SWAT teams, "no-knock" raids, and the rise of paramilitary tactics in domestic policing (the study was released this week). The trends I've found are troubling, and some of the individual stories are absolutely heartbreaking.
Each day in America, police SWAT teams raid more than 100 private homes, many times very late at night, or very early in the morning. Many times, these teams don't even bother to knock. Because these raids are violent, confrontational, and often conducted on questionable intelligence (I'll get to that in a moment), they've left a long trail of "wrong address" raids on frightened innocents, needless injury, and even death.

Since the early 1980s, the U.S. has seen a 1,300 percent rise in the number of SWAT team deployments, from 3,000 per year in 1981, to more than 40,000 per year in 2001 (the number is likely even higher today). It's of no coincidence that this dramatic increase has taken place over the period the U.S. has reinvigorated its war on drugs.

According to Eastern Kentucky University criminologist Peter Kraska, who has tracked the trend, the vast majority of these raids are to serve routine drug warrants, many times for crimes no more serious than possession of marijuana.

If you've seen an episode of Cops or Dallas SWAT, you know the routine. These raids are commonly conducted late at night, or just before dawn, to catch suspects by surprise. Police sometimes deploy "flash grenades," then batter down or blow up doors with explosives. They then storm the home, subduing occupants, handcuffing them at gunpoint, sometimes pushing them to the ground.

They then search the home, typically with little regard for personal belongings. If the family dog gets in the way, he'll be executed.

This would all be acceptable if SWAT teams were used as they were originally intended. L.A. police chief Darryl Gates invented the concept in the 1960s shortly after the Watts riots. Gates wanted an elite team of police who could defuse dangerous situations like riots, hostage-takings, or bank robberies. For about a decade, that's how SWAT teams were used, and they performed marvelously.

Unfortunately, in the 1980s Congress began making surplus military gear available to local police departments, with the intent that they use it for drug enforcement. Millions of dollars worth of military-grade rifles, tanks, helicopters, body armor, and other gear made its way to civilian police organizations.

In some cases, the trend grew absurd. One rural county in Florida assembled its own air force with the helicopters and planes it got from the Pentagon. Another tiny town had more M-16s in its police department than the town had stoplights.

With all of this war gear, cities, towns, and even small towns decided to start their own SWAT teams. As often happens with government entities, the mission of these SWAT teams began to expand over time, to include not just emergency situations, but more routine police work as well. Federal grants for drug arrests and asset forfeiture laws that make drug policing more lucrative than other types of policing offered further incentives to use SWAT teams to serve drug warrants.

The problem is, drug policing is quite a bit different than sending an elite paramilitary team to deal with a known, immediate threat to the community. When there's a hostage situation, a bank robbery, or a riot, it's pretty clear where the incident is happening, and who's involved. That's not true of the drug trade.

Because most drug crimes are consensual crimes, there's no direct victim to report them. Therefore, police have to rely on informants to tip them off to whose dealing, and where. These informants are notoriously unreliable. They tend to be criminals themselves, looking for leniency. Or they could be rival drug dealers, looking to bump off the competition.

The problem is, these violent, highly-confrontational SWAT raids are conducted based on information first gleaned from informants. Which means the information isn't always accurate. Which means an untold number of innocent Americans have been subjected to the horrifying predicament of having armed men invade their homes in the middle of the night, and needing to decide immediately upon waking if the intruders are cops or criminals, and if they should submit or resist.

Of course, even if the suspect is guilty of small-time dope use or dope dealing, I would argue that that doesn't mean there's justification for kicking down their doors and invading their homes as they're sleeping.

Have a look at this map. It plots nearly 300 botched SWAT raids I've found over the course of about a year of research. It is by no means comprehensive. My guess is that it doesn't even begin to make a full accounting for how many times this has happened, both because police are reluctant to report their mistakes, and because the victims of botched raids are often too afraid or embarrassed to come forward.

As I've begun to write about this issue, many more victims of these raids have called or emailed to tell me their own stories - most of which never made it into the newspaper.

But even the documented cases should be cause for concern. They include the cases of Salvatore Culosi and Cory Maye, both of whom I've written about previously in this column. They include 40 cases in which a completely innocent person was killed. There are dozens more in which nonviolent offenders (recreational pot smokers, for example, or small-time gamblers like Culosi) or police officers were needlessly killed.

There are nearly 150 cases in which innocent families, sometimes with children, were roused form their beds at gunpoint, and subjected to the fright of being apprehended and thoroughly searched at gunpoint. There are other cases in which a SWAT team seems wholly inappropriate, such as the apprehension of medical marijuana patients, many of whom are bedridden.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much appetite for change. When a 2003 mistaken raid in New York City ended with the death of 57-year-old Alberta Spruill -- who was completely innocent -- public outrage and media scrutiny forced the city to promise reforms. One attorney who specializes in these cases tells me that barely three years later, the mistaken raids are happening again, and that the city maintains the reforms it promised were merely "discretionary."

Increasingly, these raids are moving beyond the drug war. SWAT teams are now being employed to serve white collar warrants, too, as was the case with Culosi. Sad as it is, perhaps that's what it will take. Perhaps once upper-class people with more power and social leverage begin to feel the brunt force of this blunt law enforcement tool, we'll begin to see some change. less
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:05 AM   #45
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Ideally you don't shoot a 7 year old, but shit happens in these raids.

Ideally the woman shouldn't be struggling with the cops either which could have caused the stray shot.
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