Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Debating with the enemy


Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Debating with the enemy


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-17-2010, 09:07 AM   #46
Playmaker
 
mlmdub130's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Age: 31
Posts: 3,152
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
What are you reading just clips from the family.

Upon entering the home, the officer encountered a 46-year-old female inside the front room, Godbee said. "Exactly what happened next is a matter still under investigation, but it appears the officer and the woman had some level of physical contact.
"At about this time, the officer's weapon discharged one round which, tragically, struck 7-year-old Aiyana Stanley Jones in the neck/head area."

The person they were after was arrested in the home:

Jones claimed the officers had the wrong house, but Godbee said in the statement the 34-year-old suspect in Blake's death was found and arrested at the home. In addition, a vehicle and a moped matching the descriptions of those involved in Blake's shooting were also found, he said
.
yes he was in the house but it was a duplex and it sounds like he was in the other half of it. not confirmed but thats what it sounds like
__________________
"I don't think anybody should have regrets, especially me, ... You don't regret what you do in your life. If you do it, you do it for a reason."

ST21
mlmdub130 is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 05-17-2010, 09:08 AM   #47
Playmaker
 
mlmdub130's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Age: 31
Posts: 3,152
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
A 7yo is going to be standing at knee cap level or possibly thigh. There is simply no excuse for a trained officer to take that type of shot. And no, I wasn't there, and yes heat of the moment etc, but I did do a LOT of MOUT (military ops in urban terrain) training, and that is what these guys practice day in and day out.
The only exception I could see, and we will probably never know the truth, is if the 7yo actually drew a real or toy gun.
i did as well and thats why imo there really is no excuse they train for this stuff day in and day out. like i said it's a tough job, really tough, but they signed up for it
__________________
"I don't think anybody should have regrets, especially me, ... You don't regret what you do in your life. If you do it, you do it for a reason."

ST21
mlmdub130 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 09:09 AM   #48
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 49
Posts: 15,818
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
Regardless of if the person was in the home, you don't shoot a 7yo.
Read the article the officer was having a strugle with some lady in the home when the gun went off.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 09:14 AM   #49
MVP
 
CRedskinsRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pasadena, Md
Age: 46
Posts: 12,131
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Justify it all you want, it's wrong. These guys are trained day in day out for these operations, they have rules and regs about engaging.
CRedskinsRule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 09:16 AM   #50
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 49
Posts: 15,818
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

How come children get shot almost everyday when they get caught up in some gang gun fight but we never see this hugh up roar.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 09:17 AM   #51
Playmaker
 
mlmdub130's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Age: 31
Posts: 3,152
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
How come children get shot almost everyday when they get caught up in some gang gun fight but we never see this hugh up roar.
because it's not the cops shooting kids normally are you being serious
__________________
"I don't think anybody should have regrets, especially me, ... You don't regret what you do in your life. If you do it, you do it for a reason."

ST21
mlmdub130 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 09:21 AM   #52
‎\m/
 
Mattyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 41
Posts: 79,391
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Regardless of rules and regulations these raids are dangerous and very unpredictable for everyone involved. Nobody wants to see an innocent child harmed or killed.

Should these raids even happen in the first place should be the question.
__________________
Support The Warpath! | Warpath Shop
Mattyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 09:27 AM   #53
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 49
Posts: 15,818
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlmdub130 View Post
because it's not the cops shooting kids normally are you being serious
Yes I'm being serious. It never seems like an issue until a cop is involved then you see everyone getting ticked. Why don't they get ticked at the random violence claiming children every day. A child gets killed in the cross fire of gangs and the cops cannot catch the shooter because everyone says No Snitch.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 09:41 AM   #54
Franchise Player
 
mredskins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,560
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by mredskins View Post
Interesting comment on CNN, ties into our Pot thread and how the war on drugs is a waste of time:

Winston Churchill is commonly credited with having said, "Democracy means that when there's a knock in the door at 3 am, it's probably the milkman."

One wonders what Churchill would make of modern-day, drug war America.

For the last year, I've been researching a study on SWAT teams, "no-knock" raids, and the rise of paramilitary tactics in domestic policing (the study was released this week). The trends I've found are troubling, and some of the individual stories are absolutely heartbreaking.
Each day in America, police SWAT teams raid more than 100 private homes, many times very late at night, or very early in the morning. Many times, these teams don't even bother to knock. Because these raids are violent, confrontational, and often conducted on questionable intelligence (I'll get to that in a moment), they've left a long trail of "wrong address" raids on frightened innocents, needless injury, and even death.

Since the early 1980s, the U.S. has seen a 1,300 percent rise in the number of SWAT team deployments, from 3,000 per year in 1981, to more than 40,000 per year in 2001 (the number is likely even higher today). It's of no coincidence that this dramatic increase has taken place over the period the U.S. has reinvigorated its war on drugs.

According to Eastern Kentucky University criminologist Peter Kraska, who has tracked the trend, the vast majority of these raids are to serve routine drug warrants, many times for crimes no more serious than possession of marijuana.

If you've seen an episode of Cops or Dallas SWAT, you know the routine. These raids are commonly conducted late at night, or just before dawn, to catch suspects by surprise. Police sometimes deploy "flash grenades," then batter down or blow up doors with explosives. They then storm the home, subduing occupants, handcuffing them at gunpoint, sometimes pushing them to the ground.

They then search the home, typically with little regard for personal belongings. If the family dog gets in the way, he'll be executed.

This would all be acceptable if SWAT teams were used as they were originally intended. L.A. police chief Darryl Gates invented the concept in the 1960s shortly after the Watts riots. Gates wanted an elite team of police who could defuse dangerous situations like riots, hostage-takings, or bank robberies. For about a decade, that's how SWAT teams were used, and they performed marvelously.

Unfortunately, in the 1980s Congress began making surplus military gear available to local police departments, with the intent that they use it for drug enforcement. Millions of dollars worth of military-grade rifles, tanks, helicopters, body armor, and other gear made its way to civilian police organizations.

In some cases, the trend grew absurd. One rural county in Florida assembled its own air force with the helicopters and planes it got from the Pentagon. Another tiny town had more M-16s in its police department than the town had stoplights.

With all of this war gear, cities, towns, and even small towns decided to start their own SWAT teams. As often happens with government entities, the mission of these SWAT teams began to expand over time, to include not just emergency situations, but more routine police work as well. Federal grants for drug arrests and asset forfeiture laws that make drug policing more lucrative than other types of policing offered further incentives to use SWAT teams to serve drug warrants.

The problem is, drug policing is quite a bit different than sending an elite paramilitary team to deal with a known, immediate threat to the community. When there's a hostage situation, a bank robbery, or a riot, it's pretty clear where the incident is happening, and who's involved. That's not true of the drug trade.

Because most drug crimes are consensual crimes, there's no direct victim to report them. Therefore, police have to rely on informants to tip them off to whose dealing, and where. These informants are notoriously unreliable. They tend to be criminals themselves, looking for leniency. Or they could be rival drug dealers, looking to bump off the competition.

The problem is, these violent, highly-confrontational SWAT raids are conducted based on information first gleaned from informants. Which means the information isn't always accurate. Which means an untold number of innocent Americans have been subjected to the horrifying predicament of having armed men invade their homes in the middle of the night, and needing to decide immediately upon waking if the intruders are cops or criminals, and if they should submit or resist.

Of course, even if the suspect is guilty of small-time dope use or dope dealing, I would argue that that doesn't mean there's justification for kicking down their doors and invading their homes as they're sleeping.

Have a look at this map. It plots nearly 300 botched SWAT raids I've found over the course of about a year of research. It is by no means comprehensive. My guess is that it doesn't even begin to make a full accounting for how many times this has happened, both because police are reluctant to report their mistakes, and because the victims of botched raids are often too afraid or embarrassed to come forward.

As I've begun to write about this issue, many more victims of these raids have called or emailed to tell me their own stories - most of which never made it into the newspaper.

But even the documented cases should be cause for concern. They include the cases of Salvatore Culosi and Cory Maye, both of whom I've written about previously in this column. They include 40 cases in which a completely innocent person was killed. There are dozens more in which nonviolent offenders (recreational pot smokers, for example, or small-time gamblers like Culosi) or police officers were needlessly killed.

There are nearly 150 cases in which innocent families, sometimes with children, were roused form their beds at gunpoint, and subjected to the fright of being apprehended and thoroughly searched at gunpoint. There are other cases in which a SWAT team seems wholly inappropriate, such as the apprehension of medical marijuana patients, many of whom are bedridden.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much appetite for change. When a 2003 mistaken raid in New York City ended with the death of 57-year-old Alberta Spruill -- who was completely innocent -- public outrage and media scrutiny forced the city to promise reforms. One attorney who specializes in these cases tells me that barely three years later, the mistaken raids are happening again, and that the city maintains the reforms it promised were merely "discretionary."

Increasingly, these raids are moving beyond the drug war. SWAT teams are now being employed to serve white collar warrants, too, as was the case with Culosi. Sad as it is, perhaps that's what it will take. Perhaps once upper-class people with more power and social leverage begin to feel the brunt force of this blunt law enforcement tool, we'll begin to see some change. less

This thread was moving really fast when I posted this, good read.
__________________
When life gives you paper jams, turn them into paper footballs!
mredskins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 09:46 AM   #55
MVP
 
CRedskinsRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pasadena, Md
Age: 46
Posts: 12,131
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
How come children get shot almost everyday when they get caught up in some gang gun fight but we never see this hugh up roar.
Because the police initiated this and bear the responsibility for the protection of civilians and children in their target area. It is the same as military operations in heavily civilian areas, are children injured by locals, yes, but we are there in a different role. In this case the police are there as a protector of society's rules, not as another gang enforcer, and as such they have a higher obligation. They can take due care to make sure their target is secluded, and they chose the time of this operation. There simply is no justification, barring the child drawing a weapon or the quantum physics book.
CRedskinsRule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 10:02 AM   #56
MVP
 
CRedskinsRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pasadena, Md
Age: 46
Posts: 12,131
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

CRedskinsRule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 10:10 AM   #57
Franchise Player
 
mredskins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,560
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post

Says it all, RIP little one. =(
__________________
When life gives you paper jams, turn them into paper footballs!
mredskins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 10:26 AM   #58
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 49
Posts: 15,818
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
Because the police initiated this and bear the responsibility for the protection of civilians and children in their target area. It is the same as military operations in heavily civilian areas, are children injured by locals, yes, but we are there in a different role. In this case the police are there as a protector of society's rules, not as another gang enforcer, and as such they have a higher obligation. They can take due care to make sure their target is secluded, and they chose the time of this operation. There simply is no justification, barring the child drawing a weapon or the quantum physics book.
I understand all of that but my point is this happens eveyday but people just move on and ignore the issue. Just like people are blowing me off for asking the question. The death of this girl was an accident when the officers gun went off but we kids are shooting up neighbor hoods every night and its like no big deal.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 10:28 AM   #59
MVP
 
Chico23231's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Age: 37
Posts: 10,578
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
Read the article the officer was having a strugle with some lady in the home when the gun went off.
This is disputed part of what actually happened, and a typical bullsh*t excuse a cop would try to throw to the wall hoping it will stick to help cover his ass. I read a follow up this morning stating that there wasnt a struggle but contact made as officers forced there way through the residence.
__________________
@RSherman_25 just make sure you stay in Seattle cause without that pass rush you are who we thought you were. 5th rd PK no speed good hands

DeAngelo Hall (@DeAngeloHall23) March 14, 2014
Chico23231 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 10:40 AM   #60
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 49
Posts: 15,818
Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
This is disputed part of what actually happened, and a typical bullsh*t excuse a cop would try to throw to the wall hoping it will stick to help cover his ass. I read a follow up this morning stating that there wasnt a struggle but contact made as officers forced there way through the residence.
I saw that as well but at this point we don't know what happened. Sounds like an accident either way and now this officer will have to live with this the rest of his life. Also if the guy was arrested in their home they hold the burden of allowing a guy who killed someone to hide out in their home but I guess we can just ignore that.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.38974 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25