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Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Old 05-17-2010, 11:31 AM   #61
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
I don't follow the "plenty of blame" on this one, the cops chose to assault this house at that time, they could have opted for many lesser aggressive behaviours, including stakeouts, warrants etc, but they chose the most aggressive form, and a 7yo innocent lost her life due to that simple choice. I don't see blame all around. just excuses for an overreaching decision on the use of force.
The entire raid procedure needs to be reevaluated from the top down, wouldn't you agree?

And at the heart of it, this guy gave the police a reason to raid his place, no? We're not talking about an innocent civilian.

And if there was a struggle upon the police entering that's a factor as well.

I'm not clear on how the cops are the only ones to blame.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:33 AM   #62
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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DETROIT – Seven-year-old Aiyana Jones was asleep on the living room sofa in her family's apartment when Detroit police searching for a homicide suspect burst in and an officer's gun went off, fatally striking the girl in the neck, family members say.

Her father, 25-year-old Charles Jones, told The Detroit News he had just gone to bed early Sunday after covering his daughter with her favorite Disney princess blanket when he heard a flash grenade followed by a gunshot. When he rushed into the living room, he said, police forced him to lie on the ground, with his face in his daughter's blood.

"I'll never be the same. That's my only daughter," Jones told WXYZ-TV.

Assistant Chief Ralph Godbee said officers set off the flash grenade as they entered the apartment with their guns drawn about 12:40 a.m.

...

Family members identified the woman as the child's grandmother and Charles Jones' mother, Mertilla Jones, who has said she was not involved in a struggle with the officer. Police later said the officer may have just collided with the woman.
no excuse imo
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:33 AM   #63
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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I never excused the death of this child and I was actually making the point that this happens everyday but no one seems to care when its just gang stuff. Now that a cop has shot the kid by accident everyone is making a big issue of this. If your going to bitch about an accident then be consitent and bitch about killing of children. The cops where actually after a guy who had killed a kid and where was the out cry about that murder. Sense we invaded Iraq we have had around 135,000 murders in the US but no one never seems to get all worked up over many of those murders. It can be said that our service men are safer in Iraq then in some of our city neighborhoods but we ignore that violence and lost of children.
Well, I am consistent and I get worked up over the killing of every child I hear about, I just don't usually address it on a message board. I don't think there's ever any excuse for it.

In regards to getting worked up over every murder, I'm consistent on that as well, I only ever get worked up when innocents are killed. I have no problem with gang members/drug dealers killing each other so long as they're accurate when they decide to shoot at each other areas where others may be harmed.

As for the "excusing the death of a child" comment, if that was not your intention, I apologize, it just seems that you're taking a bit of a laissez faire attitude as it pertains to the killing of a kid.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:38 AM   #64
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Not following you...

I'm not excusing anyone
Like I said to FD, if that was not your attention, I apologize, but you're taking a very nonchalant approach to the killing of a 7 year old. The "he has to live with it excuse" is pretty horrendous, IMO.

As to your other points, in later posts. Yes, the raid procedure should be re-evaluated, probably eliminated, IMO.

Yes, the guy gave the police a reason to raid his home, however, the raid was poorly executed. IMO, the blame falls on the officers who raided that home, so I can't say there's plenty of blame to go around.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:41 AM   #65
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
no excuse imo
Yep...."police may have collided with woman"....just go ahead f*cking say it Detriot PD, the woman action did not lead to the shooting of the girl. Sounds like police reaching for excuses...

To comment on the blame, anybody harboring a dangerous fugitive is asking for alot of trouble, and if they knew already of what the person did then they should be ashamed, but the shooting of child just shows the even though accidental the community should be outraged.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:44 AM   #66
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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The entire raid procedure needs to be reevaluated from the top down, wouldn't you agree?

And at the heart of it, this guy gave the police a reason to raid his place, no? We're not talking about an innocent civilian.

And if there was a struggle upon the police entering that's a factor as well.

I'm not clear on how the cops are the only ones to blame.
Simple, because they chose the time and place. It sounds like she was burned by the flash bang. In other words, the cops were overly aggressive, they didn't check out the possible surroundings, and didn't know the occupants of the house. The police have backed off the "struggle" and say the officer may simply have collided with a 46 yo grandma.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:48 AM   #67
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Like I said to FD, if that was not your attention, I apologize, but you're taking a very nonchalant approach to the killing of a 7 year old. The "he has to live with it excuse" is pretty horrendous, IMO.

As to your other points, in later posts. Yes, the raid procedure should be re-evaluated, probably eliminated, IMO.

Yes, the guy gave the police a reason to raid his home, however, the raid was poorly executed. IMO, the blame falls on the officers who raided that home, so I can't say there's plenty of blame to go around.
Look, a 7 year old died. That's F'ing horrible. Not denying that at all. The whole thing was a cluster F. My only point is we shouldn't be so quick to pile on the cops especially without knowing all the facts.

For the cop who killed the kid, it's not an excuse, just saying he's gotta live with that. It's F'ing terrible all around.
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:02 PM   #68
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
The entire raid procedure needs to be reevaluated from the top down, wouldn't you agree?

And at the heart of it, this guy gave the police a reason to raid his place, no? We're not talking about an innocent civilian.
And if there was a struggle upon the police entering that's a factor as well.

I'm not clear on how the cops are the only ones to blame.
it was a duplex and from what i hear he was arrested in the opposite house but police had a search warrant for the entire unit and thats why they are saying he was arrested in the house.

also i have read and stated before that the neighbor all allegedy told the police there were kids in the house before they entered.

it remains to be seen if the cops are the only ones to blame. if in fact they had no reason for being in that side of the duplex, that means the family of the little girl did absolutly nothing wrong. i'm sure we will find out more details very shortly
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:15 PM   #69
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Yep...."police may have collided with woman"....just go ahead f*cking say it Detriot PD, the woman action did not lead to the shooting of the girl. Sounds like police reaching for excuses...

To comment on the blame, anybody harboring a dangerous fugitive is asking for alot of trouble, and if they knew already of what the person did then they should be ashamed, but the shooting of child just shows the even though accidental the community should be outraged.
Actually, coming out and saying it was a collision not a tussle is starting to acknowledge they were wrong. The main problem I have is with the timing and what would seem to be a lack of awareness as to what innocents might be in the harms way with this strike.
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:22 PM   #70
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
Actually, coming out and saying it was a collision not a tussle is starting to acknowledge they were wrong. The main problem I have is with the timing and what would seem to be a lack of awareness as to what innocents might be in the harms way with this strike.
like say throwing a flash bang through a window where it hits a sleeping girl i think they really s the bed on this one and actually just read something interesting
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Detroit Police say the accidental shooting of little girl may have been caught on tape by a crew filming for the Cable TV show, "The First 48."
will be very interesting if thats the case, wonder if that had anything to do with possibly under planning the details of the raid
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:24 PM   #71
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Its sad and mistakes happen but where is the rage form the people living in the city with 365 murders in 2008 and tops the nation in murder rate. Oh its "No Snitch" when its a gang member or a common crook but have a cop make a mistake and they suddenly find their rage.
Don't assume no snitch reflects the value of the communities that are losing the young men to this violence. It reflects the attitude of those that are wrong, but when a tragedy like this happens, if the police don't act fast to acknowledge the bad action, it will be incorporated into the no snitch campaign. Again, the police have to hold themselves to a higher standard.
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:26 PM   #72
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Its sad and mistakes happen but where is the rage form the people living in the city with 365 murders in 2008 and tops the nation in murder rate. Oh its "No Snitch" when its a gang member or a common crook but have a cop make a mistake and they suddenly find their rage.
yes! you obvioulsy don't understand the training swat teams go through there is no room for errors, none. and like it's been said before the police are held to a higher standard, much higher.

this is like the md kid getting beat after the duke game if it's a couple drunkards beating each other up it's one thing but when it's cops it's a whole other ball of wax
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:14 AM   #73
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

Lawyer questions police version of raid that killed girl - CNN.com

a-oh...so they were filming a reality tv show?...and there is a video of police firing into the home?...oh and the police were at the wrong house too? I hope to god this family sues the f*ck out of the police and city and drains what little money remains out of Detroit. I would love for someone to serve jailtime. if this is true, this is absolutely pathetic
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:33 AM   #74
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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idk, if i'm a cop and am about to raid a house with my gun drawn i know my adrenalin(sp) is gonna be pumpin pretty hard. when i bust into that house i'm not sure what i'll find or what i'll have to face. a dog,even if it's small and just nipping at my ankles, could be a hinderance. what if i have to give chase after someone or get into a physical altercation with someone, i don't need a dog of any size bitting me while i'm trying to control a suspect.
i'm not trying to defend the cops but i'm not 100% convinced they did anything wrong.
DUDE! THEY SHOT A CAGED DOG!!!! A CAGED ANIMIAL!!!!!! IF YOU GET BIT BY A CAGED ANIMAL IT IS BECAUSE YOU ARE STUPID! NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE TRYING TO GIVE CHASE!!!!!!

They even shot the dogs in front of kids..................a caged dog in front of kids! And you're not convinced thats wrong!?!??!?! Gimme a break!
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Old 05-18-2010, 03:24 PM   #75
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Re: Missouri Cops Raid House... Shoots Dogs with Children Present

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Its sad and mistakes happen but where is the rage form the people living in the city with 365 murders in 2008 and tops the nation in murder rate. Oh its "No Snitch" when its a gang member or a common crook but have a cop make a mistake and they suddenly find their rage.
For those interested in studying more about police raids, I highly recommend the writings of Radley Balko of Reason Magazine. In particular, his piece about the case of Cory Maye, who at one point was sentenced to death row for the shooting death of a police officer who was part of a SWAT team raid of his house, which turned out to be the wrong one. It's a long article, but well worth it.

Here's a snippet of the piece, which I think eloquently makes the case about how so much preferential treatment is given to police when they make mistake, but not so much in the case of those whose home is being raided:

Quote:
Criminal charges against police officers who accidentally kill innocent people in these raids are rare. Prosecutors almost always determine that the violent, confrontational nature of the raids and the split-second decisions made while conducting them demand that police be given a great deal of discretion. Yet it’s the policy of using volatile forced-entry raids to serve routine drug warrants that creates those circumstances in the first place.

Worse, prosecutors are much less inclined to take circumstances into account when it comes to pressing charges against civilians who make similar mistakes. When civilians who are innocent or who have no history of violence defend their homes during a mistaken raid, they have about a one in two chance of facing criminal charges if a policeman is killed or injured. When convicted, they’ve received sentences ranging from probation to life in prison to, in Maye’s case, the death penalty.

It’s a remarkable double standard. The reason these raids are often conducted late at night or very early in the morning is to catch suspects while they’re sleeping and least capable of processing what’s going on around them. Raids are often preceded by the deployment of flash-bang grenades, devices designed to confuse everyone in the vicinity. While narcotics officers have (or at least are supposed to have) extensive training in how to act during a raid, suspects don’t, and officers have the advantage of surprise. Yet prosecutors readily forgive mistaken police shootings of innocent civilians and unarmed drug suspects while expecting the people on the receiving end of late-night raids to show exemplary composure, judgment, and control in determining whether the attackers in their homes are cops or criminals.
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