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Why the rich should pay more in taxes

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Old 06-19-2010, 06:36 PM   #16
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Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes

For everyone who wants to see the rich pay more in taxes ..... go get rich yourself and pay more taxes !
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Old 06-20-2010, 12:33 AM   #17
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Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes

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Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly View Post
Nimrod thinks the rich pay taxes! The rich can afford fancy lawyers, accountants, and have powerful friends that allow them to pay minor fines if they get caught evading, like Timothy Geithner.

"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes. "

Leona Helmsley

I'm sure this logic will not get past your class envy.
Indeed.. one of the world's richest men explains why he's a democrat:

Message to Wash. Post 's Romano: Warren Buffett explained why he supports Dems | Media Matters for America

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Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser in New York for Senator Hillary Clinton, Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion (£26 billion), said: "The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you're in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent."

Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent.

[...]

Mr Buffett, who runs the investment group Berkshire Hathaway and is widely regarded as the world's most successful investor, said that he was a Democrat because Republicans are more likely to think: "I'm making $80 million a year -- God must have intended me to have a lower tax rate."
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Old 06-20-2010, 12:35 AM   #18
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Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes

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Why should you have to pay more in taxes for the more money you make? Just because a person earns more money you think the government should get to take more?
As I said money isn't infinite. Those who hoard without putting back into the system are somewhat penalized on it. The poorer you are the more money you put back into the system proportionately. So if you're making more and more a year you're keeping some of the finite money from reaching other hands.

It's simple, really.
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Old 06-20-2010, 12:36 AM   #19
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Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes

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According to this study, the top 1% of income earners pay 40% of the taxes collected and more than all taxes collected from the bottom 95%:

The Tax Foundation - Tax Burden of Top 1% Now Exceeds That of Bottom 95%

"Some in Washington say the tax system is still not progressive enough. However, the recent IRS data bolsters the findings of an OECD [Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development] study released last year showing that the U.S.—not France or Sweden—has the most progressive income tax system among OECD nations. We rely more heavily on the top 10 percent of taxpayers than does any nation and our poor people have the lowest tax burden of those in any nation."

Whether you agree with the system or not, it is pretty clear that, in the US, the rich pay taxes. BTW - Leona Helmsely went to jail and paid over 7 million in fines and restitution for tax evasion.
If you're talking total then sure.. the top 1pct probably earn more than most of the other 95
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:19 AM   #20
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Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes

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Originally Posted by tryfuhl View Post
As I said money isn't infinite. Those who hoard without putting back into the system are somewhat penalized on it. The poorer you are the more money you put back into the system proportionately. So if you're making more and more a year you're keeping some of the finite money from reaching other hands.

It's simple, really.
As an economics guy I take umbrage with the notion that they're not putting the money back into the system. The only way you can keep money out of the system is put it under a mattress.

If you're spending it, it's in the system. If you're starting a business with it, it's in the system. If you're investing with it, it's in the system. And if you're saving it, it's in the system.

Even if you put your billions in a money market fund, or even a savings account in the bank, that money is doing society a lot of good. The bank takes your money and loans it to people as they finance business ventures, college educations, building an addition on their home, whatever.

And whatever is earned on interest or dividends ends up taxed at the same rate as regular income. Yes that can be shielded to an extent, but I can do the same thing as an average joe. So I'm not really sure what you're talking about, the money is definitely "in the system".
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Old 06-20-2010, 03:00 PM   #21
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Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes

As far as Buffett paying a lower % of his money than his cleaning lady , it is because Buffett .... "chooses" not to pay himself an income , but pays his cleaning by way of income . If WB wants to , he can pay himself a salary and pay his cleaning lady through dividends , he could also give a gift / bonus every year and pay the gift tax on it for her .Lessons From How Grace Groner Made and Gave Away $7 Million - The Wealth Report - WSJ .. had the feds taxed her at 70% U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the History of the U.S. Tax System , she would have never been able to do this .
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Old 06-20-2010, 05:48 PM   #22
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Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes

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If you're talking total then sure.. the top 1pct probably earn more than most of the other 95
The top 1% in income account for slightly over 40% of all income taxed.

The top .1% account for 20% of income taxed. The adjusted gross income cut off for that .1% is 2.1 Million (if you make more than 2.1 you are in the top .1%)

The adjusted gross income cut off for the top 1% is ~410K.

So yes. The rich make a lot of money. They also pay (as the tables from my previous post show) more taxes than the rest of the "Average Joe's" combined.

Hate the rich, envy them, whatever. If you think the methodology of the statistics is incorredct and can actually dispute the facts, fine.

But opinions without factual basis are simply prejudices.
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Old 06-20-2010, 11:52 PM   #23
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Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
As an economics guy I take umbrage with the notion that they're not putting the money back into the system. The only way you can keep money out of the system is put it under a mattress.

If you're spending it, it's in the system. If you're starting a business with it, it's in the system. If you're investing with it, it's in the system. And if you're saving it, it's in the system.

Even if you put your billions in a money market fund, or even a savings account in the bank, that money is doing society a lot of good. The bank takes your money and loans it to people as they finance business ventures, college educations, building an addition on their home, whatever.

And whatever is earned on interest or dividends ends up taxed at the same rate as regular income. Yes that can be shielded to an extent, but I can do the same thing as an average joe. So I'm not really sure what you're talking about, the money is definitely "in the system".
like I said, proportionately

certainly you understand finance better since that's your thing.. but there's a lot of money of theirs NOT going into the system as well

someone making 20k a year will probably put in nearly all of that

someone worth 100mil probably isn't putting 90% of that back into the system
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:47 AM   #24
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Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes

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like I said, proportionately

certainly you understand finance better since that's your thing.. but there's a lot of money of theirs NOT going into the system as well

someone making 20k a year will probably put in nearly all of that

someone worth 100mil probably isn't putting 90% of that back into the system
Just tell me where you are getting your facts. You making them up or have you actually researched your position?

How are the rich "not putting it back into the system". Do they have underground vaults with money stacked and locked away?
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:00 AM   #25
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Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Just tell me where you are getting your facts. You making them up or have you actually researched your position?

How are the rich "not putting it back into the system". Do they have underground vaults with money stacked and locked away?
The rich are certainly putting it back into the system. Separately, many probably do have underground vaults.
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:46 AM   #26
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Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes

Sometimes I wonder if people (not anyone here, but a general question) look at things from a Darwinian-like perspective; that people should always strive to attain as much as they can (objects, money, whatever gets your rocks off) and that those who can't seem grab themselves by their bootstraps or catch a break and attain what they need should be shunned, ignored or otherwise not helped because they are not fit enough (in whatever way necessary) to move up the proverbial ladder.

And I'm not saying that Joe Sixfigures should be the one helping out those who are in need, so don't accuse me of that.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:32 AM   #27
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Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes

I don't see why we have to pay taxes at all? I mean they do have a printing press and Keynesians turn it on whenever they feel like it anyway.

As I said before,

CNSNews.com - Middle Class--Not the Rich or the Poor--Pay Majority of Federal Taxes, Says CBO Data
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:29 PM   #28
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Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes

Just looking at the chart in your article, it still is clear that taxes are weighted to the wealthier.

To me the title of your article is somewhat misleading - To conclude that the "Middle Class" pay the most taxes the article presents an income range from 34K - 141K as paying 50% of the taxes. Okay, while I don't have a problem saying that 141K is "middle class", the definition used is still a pretty broad income range and includes within it taxation rates that are not quite an "apples to apples" comparison. Let's break it down based on the figures cited in the article itself.

From the numbers given in the article and based on the "Quintiles" at the bottom of the page:

Incomes in the 34K-50K range pay 9% of all taxes;
Incomes in the 50K-74K range pay 16% of all taxes.
Thus, people with incomes 74K-141K pay 25% (50% - 9% - 16%) of all taxes.

Further, since all people making more than 74K pay 68% of the taxes, people making more than 141K are paying 43% of all taxes (68% - 25%(the amount paid by the 74K-141K bracket)).

Lets look at the supporting (and cited) data which seems at odds with the article itself:

Under the CBO data (at page 6) cited by the article, the top 10% of income earners (people with pre-tax incomes greater than 394K) pay 55% of all taxes. In other words, ~12M households pay over half of all taxes collected from a total of 116M households (also from the CBO data). Maybe it's just me, but if you are making close to 400K and people within your income class make up only the top 10% of the income population, you are not middle class.

A quote from the CBO article: "Higher-income groups earn a disproportionate share of pretax income and pay a disproportionate share of federal taxes. In 2007, the highest quintile earned 55.9 percent of pretax income and paid 68.9 percent of federal taxes; the top 1 percent of households earned 19.4 percent of income and paid 28.1 percent of taxes."
http://www.cbo.gov/publications/coll...xRates2007.pdf

I am not saying it's right or wrong, I am just saying that those screaming "the Rich aren't paying taxes!" are ignoring the facts. As a result they are either choosing to be ignorant, intentionally spreading misinformation, or simply buying into some demogogue's agenda.

The "Rich" are taxed very heavily and are certainly paying for the privilege of being allowed to accumulate wealth.
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