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For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

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Old 07-06-2010, 04:39 PM   #31
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

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Originally Posted by Miller101 View Post
Congress' approval rating is at 18% only because Republicans keep filibustering everything! If Democrats were to get a majority in the Senate then you would see the filibustering stop and their ratings go up.


Last time I checked the Dems had a majority in the Senate. They had a supermajority (minority doesn't have enough votes to keep a filibuster going) until the special election was held to fill the seat vacated by Sen. Kennedy's passing was won...in liberal Mass....by a Republican. If that's not an indictment of the Democratic controlled Congress I don't know what is.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:40 PM   #32
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

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hmm, i seem to remember the democrats filibustering a lot as well, (and republicans crying about it) bottom line that is a tool of the minority, and both parties know how to use it (to the detriment of the country, imo)
Dude, Dems never ever filbustered every single bill that came across the Senate Floor for one whole term of Congress. Not ever! So, Trying to compare Republican Filibustering to Democrat Filibustering is like trying to compare George Bush's English to an English Teacher's English.......................It just doesn't make any sense.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:42 PM   #33
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

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Dude, Dems never ever filbustered every single bill that came across the Senate Floor for one whole term of Congress. Not ever! So, Trying to compare Republican Filibustering to Democrat Filibustering is like trying to compare George Bush's English to an English Teacher's English.......................It just doesn't make any sense.
I'm not going to give history lessons, I am sure others are better, but I promise if you look back, at the period when every judicial nominee was held up due to democratic filibusters, you would find that the democrats have used that tool with a heavy hand when they felt they had too.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:42 PM   #34
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

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hmm, i seem to remember the democrats filibustering a lot as well, (and republicans crying about it) bottom line that is a tool of the minority, and both parties know how to use it (to the detriment of the country, imo)
a filibuster is not necessarily a bad thing, it prevents a simple majority from running wild over the minority. A pure democracy (simple majority rule) is not a good thing.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:47 PM   #35
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

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a filibuster is not necessarily a bad thing, it prevents a simple majority from running wild over the minority. A pure democracy (simple majority rule) is not a good thing.
I agree, and when a party has no other recourse, yes it is going to use the filibuster as it's tool. It's there for a reason and I understand it. When I said to the detriment, I just have a vivid memory of judicial seats going unfilled due to the Democratic minority filibustering to prevent certain appointments. I guess the bigger point that you make is it is a tool of last resort that prevents a minority from being overrun without due process, and that is a good thing to keep the system in balance.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:04 AM   #36
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

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Last time I checked the Dems had a majority in the Senate. They had a supermajority (minority doesn't have enough votes to keep a filibuster going) until the special election was held to fill the seat vacated by Sen. Kennedy's passing was won...in liberal Mass....by a Republican. If that's not an indictment of the Democratic controlled Congress I don't know what is.


The Democrats never have had a majority in the Senate! Sixty Seats is a majority in the Senate! 60! And thats just breaking even! The most they have had in this term is 58. You can look it up if you don't believe me. Your Republican pals filibuster everything that comes along. Every single bill!!! Thats why I said that we need to get some more Democrats in the Senate. So the Republican Filibuster can be broken. Then and only then things will start getting done. The American People will be happy to see things get done and their ratings will go up. On the other hand, If it stays the way it is now......................................with Republicans still holding power. Our country could very well stay in the freakin dirt!
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:18 AM   #37
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

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The Democrats never have had a majority in the Senate! Sixty Seats is a majority in the Senate! 60! And thats just breaking even! The most they have had in this term is 58. You can look it up if you don't believe me. Your Republican pals filibuster everything that comes along. Every single bill!!! Thats why I said that we need to get some more Democrats in the Senate. So the Republican Filibuster can be broken. Then and only then things will start getting done. The American People will be happy to see things get done and their ratings will go up. On the other hand, If it stays the way it is now......................................with Republicans still holding power. Our country could very well stay in the freakin dirt!
Democrats struggle to hold critical 60-seat Senate majority - CNN.com
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:32 AM   #38
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

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Originally Posted by Miller101 View Post


The Democrats never have had a majority in the Senate! Sixty Seats is a majority in the Senate! 60! And thats just breaking even! The most they have had in this term is 58. You can look it up if you don't believe me. Your Republican pals filibuster everything that comes along. Every single bill!!! Thats why I said that we need to get some more Democrats in the Senate. So the Republican Filibuster can be broken. Then and only then things will start getting done. The American People will be happy to see things get done and their ratings will go up. On the other hand, If it stays the way it is now......................................with Republicans still holding power. Our country could very well stay in the freakin dirt!
Given that there are 100 senators, 51 is the number for a majority. 60 is the number for a powerful super-majority.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:43 AM   #39
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

The 2 "independents" that took the Democrats from the 58 that Miller said and the 60 supermajority basically always vote Democratic. So while the Democrats may technically have only had 58, they controlled 60 votes, or enough to break a filibuster, until they lost the special election early this year.

From Smoot's article:
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Democrats currently have exactly 60 members in their caucus; Republicans have 40. The GOP knows that presidents typically lose House and Senate seats during midterm elections, and is banking on that fact to block much of Obama's agenda.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:50 AM   #40
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

From the Wikipedia Senate breakdown:
Quote:
Party Elected
Democratic Party 57
Republican Party 41
Independents ......2
Again, the Independents both rarely if ever vote against the Democratic vote if it is a major up/down issue.
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Old 07-07-2010, 11:20 AM   #41
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

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Bush did include some war spending in his budget but its has always been counted against the deficit. Pretty much the same thing that Obama is doing. In the end the deficit is the deficit no matter what the budget was.
Deficit is the shortfall of the budget. You budget 1000 and spend 1150. 150 is the deficit. The budget determines the deficit. The crazy part is they hide stuff by not putting it in the budget. If they know they have to spend it then include it in the budget, its intellectually dishonest not to. Of course Bush didn't include the war costs in the budget because then it would be voted on in perspective with everything else. He would wait til Al Quaeda make a tape then have them vote on the war budget alone. Deficit be damned we gonna get Saddam at all costs!!!!
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Old 07-07-2010, 11:22 AM   #42
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

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Originally Posted by Miller101 View Post


The Democrats never have had a majority in the Senate! Sixty Seats is a majority in the Senate! 60! And thats just breaking even! The most they have had in this term is 58. You can look it up if you don't believe me. Your Republican pals filibuster everything that comes along. Every single bill!!! Thats why I said that we need to get some more Democrats in the Senate. So the Republican Filibuster can be broken. Then and only then things will start getting done. The American People will be happy to see things get done and their ratings will go up. On the other hand, If it stays the way it is now......................................with Republicans still holding power. Our country could very well stay in the freakin dirt!
Have you and jtf been on the NASA shuttle to Bizarro world together? There are countries that have a similar structure to what you're looking for....Venezuela, Cuba, China come to mind.
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Old 07-07-2010, 02:29 PM   #43
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

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The 2 "independents" that took the Democrats from the 58 that Miller said and the 60 supermajority basically always vote Democratic. So while the Democrats may technically have only had 58, they controlled 60 votes, or enough to break a filibuster, until they lost the special election early this year.

From Smoot's article:
You're making it sound like Independents are Democrats. And thats where you are wrong. Do I need to remind you that Lieberman, one of the Independents, joined the McCain Campaign last Presidential Election? He actually wanted McCain, the Republican, to be President. Not the Democrat, but the Republican!

Lieberman goes to bat for McCain campaign - The Boston Globe

Or that Lieberman sided with the Republicans for almost all of the Health Care Reform debate? I mean, he even joined the Republican Filibuster of it. He was one of the key reasons that the Public Option was taken out...............I'm sure I don't need to remind you that the Public Option was a very Democratic thing.

Will Sen. Joe Lieberman filibuster health care reform, or won't he? - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine

So, trying to call this guy a Democrat is kind of like catching George Bush in the act of speaking English correctly......................................... .....It happens from time to time, but not as much as you would like.
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Old 07-07-2010, 04:24 PM   #44
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

Lieberman's history:
. In the 2000 United States presidential election, Lieberman was the Democratic nominee for Vice President, running with presidential nominee Al Gore,
He was an unsuccessful candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in the 2004 presidential election.
Lieberman has been officially listed in Senate records for the 110th and 111th Congresses as an "Independent Democrat"[2]
Ultimately, the Senate Democratic Caucus voted to allow Lieberman to keep chairmanship of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. Subsequently, Lieberman announced that he will continue to caucus with the Democrats.[4]
Lieberman remains a registered Democrat.[5]
{sidenote, He has also opposed filibustering Republican judicial appointments.}

the above was from his Wiki,

he also was a Democratic Senator since 1988 before he lost the Democratic primary and ran as an independent democrat.

so trying to say this guy isn't a Democrat demonstrates a lack of knowledge about his past.
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Old 07-07-2010, 05:13 PM   #45
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Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

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The Democrats never have had a majority in the Senate! Sixty Seats is a majority in the Senate! 60! And thats just breaking even! The most they have had in this term is 58. You can look it up if you don't believe me. Your Republican pals filibuster everything that comes along. Every single bill!!! Thats why I said that we need to get some more Democrats in the Senate. So the Republican Filibuster can be broken. Then and only then things will start getting done. The American People will be happy to see things get done and their ratings will go up. On the other hand, If it stays the way it is now......................................with Republicans still holding power. Our country could very well stay in the freakin dirt!
Wow. The President is a Democrat, the Democrats hold a majority in the House, a majority in the Senate and yet the Republicans are "still holding power"!!! Amazing. Add that to your "Democrats never have had a majority in the Senate" and you are just the Fact Checking Man!!!

Tell the truth, you've learned your debate style from JTF.
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