Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Debating with the enemy


Can you change?

Debating with the enemy


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-05-2010, 03:44 PM   #16
Playmaker
 
Slingin Sammy 33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,341
Re: Can you change?

Good post 12th.

I'm like you, except on the other side of things (I'll always remember that thread with the chart that plotted where each person was on the political spectrum), that was a good thread.

I grew up just outside DC in the People's Republic of Montgomery County (Kensington), although it was probably at least 10 years earlier than when you grew up. My folks were registered Ds, but voted R from Reagan on. I'd say they were Kennedy Ds. I remember reading the Washington Post, but mostly checking the baseball box scores, reading Skins stuff, and checking the Weekend section for the movie times, not realizing the Washington Post was left of Pravda. I was worried about Reagan "putting us into a nuclear war" before he got elected in 1980, but was in his corner as I got into HS. When I went into the USAF I was sent to Japan and exposed to the real world, my views were solidly formed and have stayed consistent since, but more fiscally conservative as I get older.

Could I vote for a Democrat, certainly. But you can't find a fiscal conservative, limited gov't Dem to save your soul. And I agree, I haven't been inspired by the Rs in quite sometime. To me they're just the lesser of two evils. Problem is both parties are controlled at the top by special interests and solid, middle of the road, common sense candidates can't get out of primaries because the big party money stomps them almost every time. We just had a primary here in VB and the big party guy won even though he wasn't the best choice. He'll be another don't tax but keep spending RINO. He'll say the scripted things, but will be a tool for the RNC, just like Thelma Drake was.

I would trade in Obama for either Clinton, especially Bill, in a heartbeat. I was no fan of his, but he did know how to track to the center when necessary. That being said, while Clinton technically passed a surplus to Bush 2, he also passed on a recession. His housing policies were also a contributor to the current recession (but to his credit, he saw the pending problems and sounded the warning bells on this, the current crop of Ds didn't heed the warnings).

While Bush was certainly no fiscal conservative, the Bush tax cuts did limit the impact of the 2001 recession and minimized the impact of Sept. 11th on the economy. Most of Bush's spending increases were related to Sept. 11th (DHS, etc.) and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, with bi-partisan Congressional support.

I don't think changing is really the issue, the folks here that meaningfully contribute to the political discussions have different views but normally are in agreement or could come to a satisfactory agreement on 80% of the issues. The vast majority of the country is influenced heavily by soundbites and talking heads without doing any research or investigation into the issues. You could find out what the 3rd WR on the Texans did in the Week 5 fantasy league or what American Idol/Bachelor/DWTS gossip is going on before most folks could name the VP or their own congressman/ senators.
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.
Slingin Sammy 33 is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 07-05-2010, 08:43 PM   #17
Franchise Player
 
mredskins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,689
Re: Can you change?

I am a Dem for the most part but I be stupid not to vote for this guy.

Bob Ehrlich Splash

The Dem party in MD is just plain awful.
__________________
When life gives you paper jams, turn them into paper footballs!
mredskins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 10:35 AM   #18
Playmaker
 
GhettoDogAllStars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Denver
Age: 32
Posts: 2,761
Re: Can you change?

What needs to happen, broken down by member:

Saden = US declares bankruptcy
TTE = needy elderly
JTF = big business owner

Obviously this is a joke, but it leads to the real answer: everyone has a different perspective and none of them are wrong.

The big business owner feels like they worked hard enough to get where they are, and they deserve what they earn and shouldn't have to share it with anyone.

The needy elderly cannot survive on their own, and they feel like their lifetime of hard work entitles them to support from the government.

The poverty-stricken child who found their way out of the ghetto and received a college degree doesn't want others to face the same obstacles, and petitions the government for minority support for higher education.

None of these people/perspectives is wrong. I once read a quote that said the real truth is the sum of all perspectives. I think it applies well to politics.
__________________
To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered.
GhettoDogAllStars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 10:41 AM   #19
Playmaker
 
GhettoDogAllStars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Denver
Age: 32
Posts: 2,761
Re: Can you change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post
I think it was Bertrand Russell who said, "the whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so sure of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubt."
I love that quote.
__________________
To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered.
GhettoDogAllStars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 10:59 AM   #20
Playmaker
 
Trample the Elderly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Three Chopt Virginia
Age: 36
Posts: 2,906
Re: Can you change?

I have changed. When I was fourteen I thought we should have national health care. Then I got a job and found out that none of this stuff was free. Just because you get a middle man to steal for you (the government), doesn't mean you're not a effing thief. I don't care if you're a poor old person or some starving child, eat cat food and die. There's no magic money tree at the Federal Reserve.
__________________
A funny thing happened on the way to the temple. The moneychangers bought the priesthood.
Trample the Elderly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 11:04 AM   #21
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: Can you change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars View Post
What needs to happen, broken down by member:

Saden = US declares bankruptcy
TTE = needy elderly
JTF = big business owner

Obviously this is a joke, but it leads to the real answer: everyone has a different perspective and none of them are wrong.

The big business owner feels like they worked hard enough to get where they are, and they deserve what they earn and shouldn't have to share it with anyone.

The needy elderly cannot survive on their own, and they feel like their lifetime of hard work entitles them to support from the government.

The poverty-stricken child who found their way out of the ghetto and received a college degree doesn't want others to face the same obstacles, and petitions the government for minority support for higher education.

None of these people/perspectives is wrong. I once read a quote that said the real truth is the sum of all perspectives. I think it applies well to politics.

I like that.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 11:10 AM   #22
Playmaker
 
Trample the Elderly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Three Chopt Virginia
Age: 36
Posts: 2,906
Re: Can you change?

The middle of the road is where all the road kill is at.
__________________
A funny thing happened on the way to the temple. The moneychangers bought the priesthood.
Trample the Elderly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 01:19 PM   #23
MVP
 
12thMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: washington, D.C.
Posts: 11,456
Re: Can you change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
Good post 12th.

I'm like you, except on the other side of things (I'll always remember that thread with the chart that plotted where each person was on the political spectrum), that was a good thread.

I grew up just outside DC in the People's Republic of Montgomery County (Kensington), although it was probably at least 10 years earlier than when you grew up. My folks were registered Ds, but voted R from Reagan on. I'd say they were Kennedy Ds. I remember reading the Washington Post, but mostly checking the baseball box scores, reading Skins stuff, and checking the Weekend section for the movie times, not realizing the Washington Post was left of Pravda. I was worried about Reagan "putting us into a nuclear war" before he got elected in 1980, but was in his corner as I got into HS. When I went into the USAF I was sent to Japan and exposed to the real world, my views were solidly formed and have stayed consistent since, but more fiscally conservative as I get older.

Could I vote for a Democrat, certainly. But you can't find a fiscal conservative, limited gov't Dem to save your soul. And I agree, I haven't been inspired by the Rs in quite sometime. To me they're just the lesser of two evils. Problem is both parties are controlled at the top by special interests and solid, middle of the road, common sense candidates can't get out of primaries because the big party money stomps them almost every time. We just had a primary here in VB and the big party guy won even though he wasn't the best choice. He'll be another don't tax but keep spending RINO. He'll say the scripted things, but will be a tool for the RNC, just like Thelma Drake was.

I would trade in Obama for either Clinton, especially Bill, in a heartbeat. I was no fan of his, but he did know how to track to the center when necessary. That being said, while Clinton technically passed a surplus to Bush 2, he also passed on a recession. His housing policies were also a contributor to the current recession (but to his credit, he saw the pending problems and sounded the warning bells on this, the current crop of Ds didn't heed the warnings).

While Bush was certainly no fiscal conservative, the Bush tax cuts did limit the impact of the 2001 recession and minimized the impact of Sept. 11th on the economy. Most of Bush's spending increases were related to Sept. 11th (DHS, etc.) and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, with bi-partisan Congressional support.

I don't think changing is really the issue, the folks here that meaningfully contribute to the political discussions have different views but normally are in agreement or could come to a satisfactory agreement on 80% of the issues. The vast majority of the country is influenced heavily by soundbites and talking heads without doing any research or investigation into the issues. You could find out what the 3rd WR on the Texans did in the Week 5 fantasy league or what American Idol/Bachelor/DWTS gossip is going on before most folks could name the VP or their own congressman/ senators.
And that's how exactly how Bush, Cheney, and Rove duped Congress into so much spending. They spun everything as a national security issue, turning it into a political issue not a policy issue, thereby questioning the patriotism of members based on their vote. Both wars were largely done by supplements and some fancy borrowing from the Chinese. And no one wants to talk about Medicare Part D, passed and unfunded by George W. Bush, adding to the mounting deficit.

I guess there's a debate to be had about Obama v. Clinton. But remember Clinton wanted a more costly and expansive healthcare bill than Obama just passed. In fact, it never saw a floor vote. And Clinton didn't inherit the worst recession in decades and two costly wars.
12thMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 01:51 PM   #24
Playmaker
 
Slingin Sammy 33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,341
Re: Can you change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
And no one wants to talk about Medicare Part D, passed and unfunded by George W. Bush, adding to the mounting deficit.
I'll talk about it. It should've never been done and was Bush and the Rs pandering to the the aging demographic for votes.
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.
Slingin Sammy 33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 02:01 PM   #25
MVP
 
12thMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: washington, D.C.
Posts: 11,456
Re: Can you change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
I'll talk about it. It should've never been done and was Bush and the Rs pandering to the the aging demographic for votes.
Thought I never say this, but I'm voting for Slingin Sam. When you running, bro? I got some peeps in Mo.County that could get you going
12thMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 02:24 PM   #26
Playmaker
 
over the mountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: baltimore
Posts: 3,311
Re: Can you change?

I used to follow politics very closely. After a while I realized that most of the senators from either aisle are so far detached from the reality that they once represented. I guess I am a democrat but I like to think (or used to think) I am an issue person.

I voted for Obama last election. I didnt vote the election before, if I did it would have been for Raplh Nader just to help support the cause of having three major political parties. With our current 2 major political party situation, both parties gravitate to polar opposites in misguided attempts to define themselves.

I really liked John McCain as well in elections prior, but Palin is such a joke and obama seems like the real deal. With McCain I saw a man that wouldnt backdoor america or lie to us or do things he honestly didnt feel was best for our nation. Thats the leader I look for, someone who is 100% devoted to america.

when i was really into politics (i.e. arguing with people on why they are wrong and I am right), I used to like what Pat Buchannon had to say.

What woud it take for me to change? lying or knowlingly misleading. I cant stand it. Bush knowingly put forth half-truths while turning a blind eye to contradicting facts when he made his cae for us to go to war at his state of the union address. to use a fairly hallowed and special presedential speech for propoganda and strict party interest disgusted me.

If I think Obama lies to a degree that repulses me like others have in the past, i will change. (ps bill lying about a BJ isnt close to being enough)
over the mountain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 02:32 PM   #27
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: Can you change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
I'll talk about it. It should've never been done and was Bush and the Rs pandering to the the aging demographic for votes.
Dido's on that. It was also around that point the Rep. party forgot their conservative base and forgot about small government. I say that was the beginning of what we now know is the tea party. They got fed up with Bush over the next 6 yrs. then Obama took office and his spending along with what Bush did pushed people over the limit.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.29579 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25