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My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

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Old 09-02-2010, 05:49 PM   #106
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

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Originally Posted by mlmpetert View Post
That sounds like how my dad thinks. He has stated that he goes to church for “insurance” purposes. I dont know if i think thats a healthy way to be religious.
LOL at your Dad. I agree with you about the "insurance" or fear not being the optimal way to find God.

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I watch South Park every now and then, and I remember watching a episode about Mormons. It basically poked fun at a lot of the ridiculous beliefs that Mormons have, but it also showed how happy the Mormon family was and how they were great people and had great values. So that’s the way I look at it. Sure belive what you want, but at the end of the day does it make you a better person. If you’re a “non-believer” that cant help yourself when it come it comes to attacking other people’s beliefs – does that make you a better person. If you’re run by divine providence and think your job is to save other people to the point that you offend them – does that make you a better person. As much as I hate it (because the type of people I see in the cars) I really like the idea behind the coexist bumper sticker.
That was a funny episode. And well stated about folks respecting one another.
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Old 09-02-2010, 05:54 PM   #107
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
So glad we hit on unicorns, Beck would be proud.

But is this really a case of left vs. right? Left doesn't = non-believer anymore than right = believer.
the left vs right was so page 4 of this thread

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Dam the left likes to call people names that don't agree with them. Just go through this entire thread and see the name calling. I thought the left was the party of inclusion, yea my ass. Thats all right november is just a month away.
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Old 09-02-2010, 06:32 PM   #108
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
Thread checklist

Black National Anthem -- check
Global Warming -- check
Existence of God - check
Mosque at Ground Zero (well 2 blocks away) -- check
Left bashing right - check
Right being offended by left bashing right - check
Unicorns -- check
Taxes - ??
Universal Healthcare -- ??
lol best post to this thread by far
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Old 09-02-2010, 06:32 PM   #109
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
So glad we hit on unicorns, Beck would be proud.
Damn, I missed the unicorns.
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:28 PM   #110
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
Thread checklist

Black National Anthem -- check
Global Warming -- check
Existence of God - check
Mosque at Ground Zero (well 2 blocks away) -- check
Left bashing right - check
Right being offended by left bashing right - check
Unicorns -- check
Taxes - ??
Universal Healthcare -- ??
Glenn Beck supports the Arizona law on illegal immigration because he believes Hispanics are the reason guys like Marcus Mason can't find jobs in the NFL...thread checklist complete
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:33 PM   #111
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
Thread checklist

Black National Anthem -- check
Global Warming -- check
Existence of God - check
Mosque at Ground Zero (well 2 blocks away) -- check
Left bashing right - check
Right being offended by left bashing right - check
Unicorns -- check
Taxes - ??
Universal Healthcare -- ??
You forgot:

Nazis -- ??
Simpsons -- ??

You could also throw in:

Pie -- ??
Question 3 -- ??

But they are a bit more WP specific.
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:49 PM   #112
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

Sorry dude, I am a libertarian leaning conservative if there is such a thing and Glenn Beck is a joke in all honesty. Did you see him a few years ago with the fake tears on Fox talking about his 9/12 Project? The guy even admits he is more of an entertainer than newsman,etc. What he has successfully done is get so called conservatives to follow his schtick(and Palin's) and ignore the more change minded and serious Ron Paul or anyone else for that matter. Also if Beck was such the influential man, why did less than 200,000 people show up to his much advertised Rally? And really, do you see a revival with tons of people going back to God? I go to a rather large church and well over 70% of the parishoners are older retirees or folks in their 50's(which fits in with Fox's and Becks number one market age group). Another one of Beck's jobs is to help with the illusion of there being a true opposition party in America, where in reality you get pretty much the same policies no matter who you want to vote for. Beck just wants to give his flock the illusion that their way of life can somehow return to what it used to be ie circa 1970. Beck is making a killing on book sales, etc playing to the fears of a dying demographic that rather live in self delusion than actually doing anything to salvage anything of their way of life.
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:34 PM   #113
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

Wait, we're still talking about Beck? Why, I thought we had moved onto Global Warming Nazis and the climate change's effect on apple pie?
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:42 PM   #114
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Wait, we're still talking about Beck? Why, I thought we had moved onto Global Warming Nazis and the climate change's effect on apple pie?
I have heard that it is a scientific fact that apples will no longer turn red due to gcc and thus more apples will be available for pies. pie nazi tho' will still not allow seinfeld to order at his store. Meanwhile joe gibbs remains speechless that beck was not asked a question as tough as question 3 was.
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:32 PM   #115
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

Does the fact that I stated that the Simpsons have not been referenced count as a Simpsons reference?
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:43 PM   #116
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Does the fact that I stated that the Simpsons have not been referenced count as a Simpsons reference?
I would think that clarifying the checklist doesn't count as a mention
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:33 PM   #117
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Excellent post.

Quite frankly, I am tired of hearing my beliefs being referred to as fairy tales by those who chose to believe differently.

BB, where do your "inalienable rights" come from? If you do not believe in the existence of a being outside creation, aren't they just conveyed to you by other humans? If so conveyed, isn't it equally true that they can be legitimately denied by the same?
From an agreed upon system of government/culture that places value upon them. It is a creation of men and their philosophy and yes, it is possible they could be denied, look around the globe for countless examples. IF these rights were guaranteed by our supposed creator, you'd think he/she/it would do a better job of follow up. Just sayin'. Oh, I know, mysterious ways and all that. Right.

Specifically re: your point about inalienable rights, you might be interested to know that Jefferson originally wrote "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable." Doesn't sound quite as religious as "...all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable Rights..," does it? The Continental Congress changed the wording to emphasize "Creator." In my view, the difference being that in the original wording, it seems to point to the inherent rights of man as a natural being in and of himself, whereas the final wording indicates the rights as a "gift" from a benevolent god. What that tells me is that our government has been forced to pander to the religious since the very beginning.

Also, the word "created" doesn't necessarily mean the role of creator is played by a god. Could very well be a process, like, I don't know, evolution? Take it for what it's worth.

Whomever made the earlier argument for religion based upon a philosophy of hedging one's bets... that's too ridiculous for me to even comment on.

Why is it disrespectful for the religious to be told their beliefs are baseless when those of us who prefer to live in the real world must constantly be told that we "need saving" or "face eternal damnation..?" Why are religious views worthy of more respect? I'd love to hear an answer without "god" in the verbiage.
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:22 AM   #118
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

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From an agreed upon system of government/culture that places value upon them. It is a creation of men and their philosophy and yes, it is possible they could be denied, look around the globe for countless examples. IF these rights were guaranteed by our supposed creator, you'd think he/she/it would do a better job of follow up. Just sayin'. Oh, I know, mysterious ways and all that. Right.
Preliminarily, we have a very different understanding of God. I have said this before in a more detailed post, but, put simply, my God doesn’t keep human pets.

We are free to disbelieve in God and, as such, we are free, through “agreed upon system[s] of government[s]/culture[s]”, to choose systems that deprive fellow humans of their basic humanity. It’s not the Creator’s job to ensure that we love and respect each other – it’s ours (Have you actually read the 10 Commandments?). Our success or failure in that respect, however, does not belie the Creator's underlying endowment. Rather, if the Creator forced humans to behave in certain ways, then we are not truly free, the Judeo-Christian God is a lie, and we are just very intelligent hamsters in a cage.

[Similarly, earlier you said you demand proof of God’s existence. Actually, what you are demanding is forensic evidence of God’s existence – God’s blood samples and fingerprints. Such a demand is antithetical to the God in which I believe. If you have undeniable, forensic evidence that a supreme, all powerful being exists, then to disobey such a being is foolhardy. Again, my God says I am free to disbelieve him/her/it. Forensic evidence destroys the need for faith but equally destroys the ability to freely choose. W/out freedom of choice, you cannot choose to love. Rather, the “proof” of my God’s existence comes in the form of testimony - testimony that you categorically disbelieve and find not credible. That’s your choice. I am not going to go into a long discourse on my philosophical/spiritual journey but, suffice it to say, it was long, contemplative and rocky and the outcome not certain until my mid -30’s. Through my own experience, I found some testimonial proof concerning the existence of God credible and some not so much. I weighed them and, after much thought and analysis, made my own determination. You are free to make the same choices or not.]

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Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy View Post
Specifically re: your point about inalienable rights, you might be interested to know that Jefferson originally wrote "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable." Doesn't sound quite as religious as "...all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable Rights..," does it? The Continental Congress changed the wording to emphasize "Creator." In my view, the difference being that in the original wording, it seems to point to the inherent rights of man as a natural being in and of himself, whereas the final wording indicates the rights as a "gift" from a benevolent god. What that tells me is that our government has been forced to pander to the religious since the very beginning.

Also, the word "created" doesn't necessarily mean the role of creator is played by a god. Could very well be a process, like, I don't know, evolution? Take it for what it's worth.
Again, I believe evolution took place and I believe it to be entirely consistent with the existence of God. I do believe that, at some point, something was created from nothing. Even if you say, created is part of the evolutionary process, fine by me – the rights did not come from man and cannot legitimately be taken away by other men.

As for being “forced to pander to the religious”, I don’t recall an armed militia holding a gun to the Continental Congress. They made a choice based on their experience. I suggest you see it as pandering b/c of your hostile attitude toward religion rather than a conclusion with factual basis.

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Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy View Post
Why is it disrespectful for the religious to be told their beliefs are baseless when those of us who prefer to live in the real world must constantly be told that we "need saving" or "face eternal damnation..?" Why are religious views worthy of more respect? I'd love to hear an answer without "god" in the verbiage.
Ahh. So some individuals/groups made remarks that disparaged your belief system and you feel the appropriate response is to treat anyone who holds similar beliefs to those individuals/groups with equal and opposite disrespect. Excellent moral/ethical conclusion – do unto others as they do unto me. Nice. Sign me up for that system.

Why are religious views worthy of more respect? They aren't. I would suggest, however, that the spiritual choices and belief systems of others are worthy of the same respect you demand for your own belief system. Your disrespect towards millions of people you don’t know strikes me as arrogant and condescending.

To be clear – I live in the “real world” and am not passing judgment on your spiritual choices. Who knows, maybe there is no God. I’ll take that chance and you take yours. In the meantime, I will live in the moment, cherish the gift of life and do unto others as I would have them do unto me - Even if they are disrespectful, arrogant individuals who mock my beliefs without any understanding of how I arrived at them.
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Last edited by JoeRedskin; 09-03-2010 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:13 AM   #119
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Preliminarily, we have a very different understanding of God. I have said this before in a more detailed post, but, put simply, my God doesn’t keep human pets.

We are free to disbelieve in God and, as such, we are free, through “agreed upon system[s] of government[s]/culture[s]”, to choose systems that deprive fellow humans of their basic humanity. It’s not the Creator’s job to ensure that we love and respect each other – it’s ours (Have you actually read the 10 Commandments?). Our success or failure in that respect, however, does not belie the Creator's underlying endowment. Rather, if the Creator forced humans to behave in certain ways, then we are not truly free, the Judeo-Christian God is a lie, and we are just very intelligent hamsters in a cage.

[Similarly, earlier you said you demand proof of God’s existence. Actually, what you are demanding is forensic evidence of God’s existence – God’s blood samples and fingerprints. Such a demand is antithetical to the God in which I believe. If you have undeniable, forensic evidence that a supreme, all powerful being exists, then to disobey such a being is foolhardy. Again, my God says I am free to disbelieve him/her/it. Forensic evidence destroys the need for faith but equally destroys the ability to freely choose. W/out freedom of choice, you cannot choose to love. Rather, the “proof” of my God’s existence comes in the form of testimony - testimony that you categorically disbelieve and find not credible. That’s your choice. I am not going to go into a long discourse on my philosophical/spiritual journey but, suffice it to say, it was long, contemplative and rocky and the outcome not certain until my mid -30’s. Through my own experience, I found some testimonial proof concerning the existence of God credible and some not so much. I weighed them and, after much thought and analysis, made my own determination. You are free to make the same choices or not.]



Again, I believe evolution took place and I believe it to be entirely consistent with the existence of God. I do believe that, at some point, something was created from nothing. Even if you say, created is part of the evolutionary process, fine by me – the rights did not come from man and cannot legitimately be taken away by other men.

As for being “forced to pander to the religious”, I don’t recall an armed militia holding a gun to the Continental Congress. They made a choice based on their experience. I suggest you see it as pandering b/c of your hostile attitude toward religion rather than a conclusion with factual basis.



Ahh. So some individuals/groups made remarks that disparaged your belief system and you feel the appropriate response is to treat anyone who holds similar beliefs to those individuals/groups with equal and opposite disrespect. Excellent moral/ethical conclusion – do unto others as they do unto me. Nice. Sign me up for that system.

Why are religious views worthy of more respect? They aren't. I would suggest, however, that the spiritual choices and belief systems of others are worthy of the same respect you demand for your own belief system. Your disrespect towards millions of people you don’t know strikes me as arrogant and condescending.

To be clear – I live in the “real world” and am not passing judgment on your spiritual choices. Who knows, maybe there is no God. I’ll take that chance and you take yours. In the meantime, I will live in the moment, cherish the gift of life and do unto others as I would have them do unto me - Even if they are disrespectful, arrogant individuals who mock my beliefs without any understanding of how I arrived at them.
Great post, very well said.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:44 AM   #120
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

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Whomever made the earlier argument for religion based upon a philosophy of hedging one's bets... that's too ridiculous for me to even comment on.
Then why even make your statement.

My little scenario is certainly no "agrument for religion". Just a 30 second retort to folks who know everything, look at Christians as idiots, and feel the need to mock people's beliefs publicly. Who knows, maybe it's made someone over the years think and eventually seek and find God.
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