DWOC's International Burn a Koran Day

Hog1 · 09-08-2010, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

You don't have to be top dog to do damage....No men are more dangerous than those who have nothing to lose.

...supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
I'm good with that, what's your plan?

Hog1 · 09-08-2010, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's a community center with a prayer room, not a mosque. And the way some people talk you'd think a theme park reenacting planes flying into buildings was being built. Not sure I'll ever understand the connection between building this center and burning a holy book.

The image of that is pretty funny, actually.
Not sure about the book burning thing as well. No good can come from that.
If they had any concern for what anyone else really thought....especially with the NATIONWIDE blow up over the issue, they would be better served building their.....reading room, library, community center, munitions laboratory...elsewhere.
It seems being a good neighbor is not part of the equation, or at least concern for what their neighbors think?

firstdown · 09-08-2010, 05:52 PM

The problem is that the Mosque also represents the other bad half that we are still fighting. When its built there will be some celebrating the fact that this Mosque was built where it is and I think we don't need that. I also think that some of the donations will come from groups that hate us and would love to see the Mosque built. Why take the risk because if that happened it could get real ugly.

saden1 · 09-08-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog1

...supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
I'm good with that, what's your plan?

I'd start with opening a genuine dialog with people and stop supporting tyrannical/dictatorial regimes. Everyone already knows about the stick in my hand, I just need to show them I got a carrot in the other hand too.

First thing is first though, I got to get the keys to this country. Vote for me!

Hog1 · 09-08-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

I'd start with opening a genuine dialog with people and stop supporting tyrannical/dictatorial regimes. Everyone already knows about my stick in my hand, I just need to show them I got a carrot in the other hand too.

First thing is first though, I got to get the keys to this country. Vote for me!

Hmmmm..........Lord Saden1???

Slingin Sammy 33 · 09-08-2010, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

You don't have to be top dog to do damage....No men are more dangerous than those who have nothing to lose.

And men who believe they gain heaven by violent acts are even more dangerous than those with nothing to lose.

Great Sun Tzu quote BTW. Problem with the Sun Tzu view in the case of battling fundamentalist Islam is that you cannot break this enemy's "resistance" because it consists of a religious obligation to either kill or subjugate all non-Muslims.

To be clear, I am not stating that all Muslims believe this. There are many peaceful Muslims who reject the fundamentalist ideology just as many mainline Christians reject radical Christian beliefs (burning Qurans, murdering abortion doctors, protesting at soldiers funerals, etc.). However, the problem worldwide is that there's a significant percentage of Muslims who follow the fundamentalist ideology.

The burning of the Quran is wrong and shouldn't be done, it's disrespectful to all Muslims. The same as buring Bibles is disrespectful to Christians. This display will accomplish nothing positive. However, as U.S. citizens (of all faiths) we have to either support the 1st Ammendment or not, no matter how deplorable the speech may be. I'm sickened by the thought of a picture of a crucifix in a bottle of urine being on display as art (and the NEA paying for it), I'm disgusted and angered at a U.S. flag being burned, I'm disgusted and angered if a Bible was burned. But I won't threaten, or attempt murder on those who do such things. If any violence comes to the DWOC people, it needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law as a hate crime.

saden1 · 09-08-2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

And men who believe they gain heaven by violent acts are even more dangerous than those with nothing to lose.

Great Sun Tzu quote BTW. Problem with the Sun Tzu view in the case of battling fundamentalist Islam is that you cannot break this enemy's "resistance" because it consists of a religious obligation to either kill or subjugate all non-Muslims.

To be clear, I am not stating that all Muslims believe this. There are many peaceful Muslims who reject the fundamentalist ideology just as many mainline Christians reject radical Christian beliefs (burning Qurans, murdering abortion doctors, protesting at soldiers funerals, etc.). However, the problem worldwide is that there's a significant percentage of Muslims who follow the fundamentalist ideology.

The burning of the Quran is wrong and shouldn't be done, it's disrespectful to all Muslims. The same as buring Bibles is disrespectful to Christians. This display will accomplish nothing positive. However, as U.S. citizens (of all faiths) we have to either support the 1st Ammendment or not, no matter how deplorable the speech may be. I'm sickened by the thought of a picture of a crucifix in a bottle of urine being on display as art (and the NEA paying for it), I'm disgusted and angered at a U.S. flag being burned, I'm disgusted and angered if a Bible was burned. But I won't threaten, or attempt murder on those who do such things. If any violence comes to the DWOC people, it needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law as a hate crime.

Yes, men who think they're heaven bound if they blow themselves up in the name of Islam are the most dangerous. The question is whether there is anything you can do to deter such thought without military action?

Quantify significant percentage of Muslims and many mainline Christians.

You will see Muslims burn the American flag in displeasure but you will never ever see them burn the Bible.

saden1 · 09-08-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog1

Hmmmm..........Lord Saden1???

Come on, think big, think First Emperor of the United States of America!

DynamiteRave · 09-08-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

Come on, think big, think First Emperor of the United States of America!

You must have Obama and Nancy Pelosi working with you in the shadows.

jsarno · 09-08-2010, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

You will see Muslims burn the American flag in displeasure but you will never ever see them burn the Bible.

Instead they just cheered when the twin towers fell. They won't burn the bible because the bible is not their enemy / infidels.
I personally think burning the books are dumb. Think about it, what is the highest sold book of all time...the bible. If you burn say 100,000 of them, guess what, someone will make more. Same can be said for the Koran. Burn them, and they will make more. So there is no real point. How about redirect that anger and decide to do something about the mosque at ground zero. All they have to do is declare it a national monument, or somewhere of historical significance, and poof, they can't build there. (they CAN do this since landing gear from the plane landed on that spot.)
That being said...while I think burning the books are dumb, I say have at it. If that's what they want to do, so be it. Of course, I do believe for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...so I wouldn't want to be those people. At least someone is standing up and trying to do SOMETHING about the fact that America keeps taking it in the ass from radical islamic culture. Just wish they could pick a better way.

saden1 · 09-08-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

Instead they just cheered when the twin towers fell. They won't burn the bible because the bible is not their enemy / infidels.
I personally think burning the books are dumb. Think about it, what is the highest sold book of all time...the bible. If you burn say 100,000 of them, guess what, someone will make more. Same can be said for the Koran. Burn them, and they will make more. So there is no real point. How about redirect that anger and decide to do something about the mosque at ground zero. All they have to do is declare it a national monument, or somewhere of historical significance, and poof, they can't build there. (they CAN do this since landing gear from the plane landed on that spot.)
That being said...while I think burning the books are dumb, I say have at it. If that's what they want to do, so be it. Of course, I do believe for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...so I wouldn't want to be those people. At least someone is standing up and trying to do SOMETHING about the fact that America keeps taking it in the ass from radical islamic culture. Just wish they could pick a better way.

Nah, they believe it is a sacred yet outdated text that warrants respect.

You've been listening to Newt Gingrich haven't you? Good luck making it a National Battlefield Memorial with so many people with vested interest in the land. Better have some serious cash if you want that land. I love it when small government proponents become big government advocates.

jsarno · 09-08-2010, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

Nah, they believe it is a sacred yet outdated text that warrants respect.

You've been listening to Newt Gingrich haven't you? Good luck making it a National Battlefield Memorial with so many people with vested interest in the land. Better have some serious cash if you want that land. I love it when small government proponents become big government advocates.

No I haven't. Just pointing out their anger could be put to better use.

Slingin Sammy 33 · 09-08-2010, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

Yes, men who think they're heaven bound if they blow themselves up in the name of Islam are the most dangerous. The question is whether there is anything you can do to deter such thought without military action?

Quantify significant percentage of Muslims and many mainline Christians.

You will see Muslims burn the American flag in displeasure but you will never ever see them burn the Bible.

Mainline Christians - based on numbers of overall Christians vs. those who commit the type of acts mentioned and giving an overly high estimate for those who support those acts. 90% + of Mainline Christians do not support the acts mentioned.

Fundamentalist Muslims - taking into account opinion polls outside the U.S. of percentages that believe killing Americans is justified, elections in Muslim countries where there is a fundamentalist vs. moderate Muslim candidate an underestimate would be 35-40%. Not saying this is the percentage that would become jihadists, saying this is the percentage that hold the belief system, agree with sharia law, etc.

Does burning buildings and Christian churches with Bibles inside count? How about just murdering Christians?

INDONESIA West Java, thousands of Islamic extremists attack a Christian center - Asia News

The American Spectator : Thrown to the Lions

The wave of anti-Christian violence | Simon Tisdall | Comment is free | The Guardian

YouTube - Pakistan: blasphemy laws spur violence...

saden1 · 09-08-2010, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Mainline Christians - based on numbers of overall Christians vs. those who commit the type of acts mentioned and giving an overly high estimate for those who support those acts. 90% + of Mainline Christians do not support the acts mentioned.

Fundamentalist Muslims - taking into account opinion polls outside the U.S. of percentages that believe killing Americans is justified, elections in Muslim countries where there is a fundamentalist vs. moderate Muslim candidate an underestimate would be 35-40%. Not saying this is the percentage that would become jihadists, saying this is the percentage that hold the belief system, agree with sharia law, etc.

Does burning buildings and Christian churches with Bibles inside count? How about just murdering Christians?

INDONESIA West Java, thousands of Islamic extremists attack a Christian center - Asia News

The American Spectator : Thrown to the Lions

The wave of anti-Christian violence | Simon Tisdall | Comment is free | The Guardian

YouTube - Pakistan: blasphemy laws spur violence against Christians

I get the mistreatment of christians but what I fail to understand is what you base 35 to 40 percent figure on. I would be shocked if you can find a poll that supports your claim that that many support the killing of americans.

Hog1 · 09-08-2010, 09:00 PM

There you have it! Fundamentalist nutjob muslims win by a landslide.
This may cast some doubt on the Olive branch project. On the bright side only half will draw and fire. The other half might take the Olive Branch.....not a problem

09-08-2010, 05:52 PM	#63
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 49 Posts: 15,206	Re: DWOC's International Burn a Koran Day The problem is that the Mosque also represents the other bad half that we are still fighting. When its built there will be some celebrating the fact that this Mosque was built where it is and I think we don't need that. I also think that some of the donations will come from groups that hate us and would love to see the Mosque built. Why take the risk because if that happened it could get real ugly.

09-08-2010, 09:00 PM	#75
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 8,376	Re: DWOC's International Burn a Koran Day There you have it! Fundamentalist nutjob muslims win by a landslide. This may cast some doubt on the Olive branch project. On the bright side only half will draw and fire. The other half might take the Olive Branch.....not a problem __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... Win! Always win! By fair means or foul, by soft words and hard deeds... by treachery, by cunning, by malpractice... but always win--Edward Teach

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DWOC's International Burn a Koran Day

Debating with the enemy