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Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

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Old 01-12-2011, 11:25 AM   #16
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

It's plain irresponsible to use this tragedy as a launching point to discuss the nature of rhetoric in our country as it applies to politics. It had nothing to do with politics...at all. It's pathetic that this is what the situation has become.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:30 AM   #17
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

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Its the left again that keeps saying how dumb she is but they are so scared of her they have to run her into the dirt every chance they get. See if she was really some hack no one would pay any attention to her. Its also funny that its the left that keeps SP name in the news. If they would just shut up about her you might see her in the news once a month instead of all day everyday at MSNBC.
You're right. By the way did you catch "The Left's Alaska" on TLC the other day? It was great, the left killed this big moose. Man it was awesome.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:35 AM   #18
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

In my opinion, too often the responsible party is absolved of blame. And in this case by responsible party I mean the guy who pulled the trigger. People always want to find reasons and place blame on politics, the media, the parents, etc. Yeah sure those influences play a role. But at the end of the day, everyone is surrounded by that everyday and it's not going to go away...but most of us aren't crazy enough to go shooting people.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:38 AM   #19
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

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Look around she has said nothing until today because of the 24 hour news about her and this on MSNBC and CNN. Hell even Matty listed links to the shit MSNBC is saying.
I wasn't necessarily talking about her...or just about her.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:19 PM   #20
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

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Look around she has said nothing until today because of the 24 hour news about her and this on MSNBC and CNN. Hell even Matty listed links to the shit MSNBC is saying.
I was just linking to the comment I liked
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:41 PM   #21
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

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So by her logic we should release Charles Manson from prison because he just told his followers to go out and kill people. Sure, it may have been his idea but a sane person wouldn't have followed it. Hell, I guess you could use the same logic for Bin Laden.

Seriously though, yes, it is up to the individual to act and its almost impossible to say how a mentally unstable person is going to interpret any given thought but at least SOME blame has to fall on those sending out the message. I'm not saying Palin is directly or even partially responsible for this tragedy in Arizona, but what does she expect to eventually happen when she uses her type of rhetoric?
You mean like Marx, who called for violent revolution? Shall we ban the Communist Manifesto? Regardless of the speech, it is the individual who must be held accountable. Manson and Bin Laden did more than simply 'call for violent action' or 'exhort their followers'. At a minimum, they planned and facilitated murder. The mob boss who plans the hit is just as guilty of murder as the hitman himself.

It's one thing to call for civility, it's another to start saying certain types of speech shouldn't be allowed in public discourse. Calls for violence and etc. have always existed. As Smootsmack said, people calling for violent actions have always been a part of political discourse and are all around us. Quite frankly, in the 1800's the individuals (left and right) would have already fought a duel which was an accepted manner of resolving political disputes through the middle of the 19th century.

As I have always said, the way to respond to "bad" speech is with "good" speech not to attempt to ban the "bad" speech.

Jonah Goldberg: Liberals' rhetoric exploits Tucson tragedy - baltimoresun.com
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:43 PM   #22
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

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Originally Posted by FRPLG View Post
It's plain irresponsible to use this tragedy as a launching point to discuss the nature of rhetoric in our country as it applies to politics. It had nothing to do with politics...at all. It's pathetic that this is what the situation has become.
Yup. This tragedy was not caused by political discourse but by one individual's warped perception of reality.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:54 PM   #23
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

When a political figure gets shot in the head, it's going to be political. We shouldn't be too surprised about that. Unfortunately this is the left/right game these days, do anything you can to pin things on the other side.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:14 PM   #24
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

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When a political figure gets shot in the head, it's going to be political. We shouldn't be too surprised about that. Unfortunately this is the left/right game these days, do anything you can to pin things on the other side.
I agree...and you played right into it.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:41 PM   #25
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

^^^ ohhh, snap!!
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:12 PM   #26
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

I agree with what the sheriff said: The words of Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik should resonate for us all:

"The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on this country is getting to be outrageous. The vitriolic rhetoric that we hear day in and day out from people in the radio business and some people in the TV business ... This has not become the nice United States that most of us grew up in. It's not unusual for all public officials to get threats constantly, myself included. That's the sad thing about what's going on in America: Pretty soon we're not going to be able to find reasonable decent people willing to subject themselves to serve in public office.''
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:38 PM   #27
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

does the "nice" United States include the duel between a former secretary of treasury and the sitting VP(Hamilton/Burr)? Or the assassinations and attempts on Presidents and Senators from the Kennedy's to Reagan?
Violence has been and always will be an inherent part of any political system. The US has managed for 200+ years to have a system which doesn't collapse when violence arises, but instead grows and adapts.

(The cynical part of me wants to say that it already has been a very long time indeed since any "decent" people were willing to serve in a public office. This shooting doesn't change that)
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Old 01-12-2011, 03:04 PM   #28
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

As Eminem said in Sing For the Moment:

"They say music can alter moods and talk to you
But can it load a gun for you and cock it too?"



I think you get into very dangerous territory when you start blaming the words of one person for the acts of another. Its shameful in my eyes to blame a rapper for your kids drug problem. Its even more shameful when we blame political pundits that express a interest in political change through democratic participation for the killings a nutcase committed.


But whats even worse is when we jump to conclusion like most journalist on the left have, especially as we find out more and more that their incendiary conclusions are incorrect. So far what has come out shows that what this guy did wasn’t politically motivated, at least in the classical connotation of left/right. The only reason this is a political topic is because of reckless liberals who made irrational connections. Like usual they let their emotions trump the facts.
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Old 01-12-2011, 03:09 PM   #29
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

A high school friend of the accused gunman dismissed speculation that Loughner's alleged rampage was sparked by political passion.

"He did not watch TV, he disliked the news," Zach Osler said. "He didn't listen to political radio, he didn't take sides, he wasn't on the left, he wasn't on the right."

Osler said that Loughner was angred at the world.
"He wasn't shooting people, he was shooting at the world," the friend said.

The Loughners' note of confusion and contrition contrasted with a hateful scribble that was found in the Loughner home that simply read "Die bitch," a sheriff's official told The Associated Press. Other notes in the safe included "I planned ahead," "My assassination" and the name "Giffords."

Osler pointed to an online documentary series called "Zeitgeist" as a possible influence on the man.
The series rails on currency-based economics.
"I really think that this 'Zeitgeist' documentary had a profound impact on Jared's mindset and how he viewed that world that he lives in," Osler said.
Osler also said that Loughner's favorite quote was "Out of chaos breathes creation."

Tucson Shooting: Jared Loughner Stopped By Authorities Hours Before Shooting - ABC News

The tragedy of yesterday and the importance of identifying and preventing “lone wolf” attacks has been completely obscured by a shameful and uneducated attack of private citizens by the media and certain public figures who were elected to lead, not divide.

I watched as mainstream media double-downed on yesterday’s massacre by orchestrating a massive defamation against conservatives. It made me physically ill to watch corporate reporters abuse the title of “news” in order to prostitute the dead for an agenda. It made me sad to see a litany of threats against conservatives on Twitter, Facebook, in my inbox. I was told I and other conservatives were “murderers,” that Palin should “burn in hell” that Andrew Breitbart “has blood on his hands.” I guess that isn’t considered the same “violent rhetoric” they opposed. I watched as Markos Moulitsas singled out Sarah Palin’s target map while defending the scrubbing from his own website threatening posts against Giffords by his writers.

I watched as a partisan sheriff in Pima County Arizona gave a press conference and electioneered instead of doing his job.
I watched as progressives ran with the false narrative that the shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, was an Afghan veteran tea party member who hated illegal immigrants. Every single word in that last sentence, except his name, is a proven lie, but many progressives discovered that they valued the opportunity to make opportunity from tragedy more than the sacredness surrounding the lives lost that day.

We’ve heard over and over “don’t politicize this.” I said it all day online. Andrew Breitbart wrote a post at Big Journalism before the culprit was identified imploring all to refrain from politicizing the tragedy no matter the shooter’s political identification. I watched as conservatives were attacked simply for defending themselves against the false narratives that the leftist media used to attack them.

This tragedy was politicized. It was politicized by Sheriff Clarence Dupnik. It was politicized by Markos Moulitsas, MSNBC, the George Soros employees at Media Matters, and more, all who incited a wave of threats and violent atmosphere towards conservatives.

So let’s go over what we know about Jared Lee Loughner:

- The Communist Manifest and Mein Kampf are his favorite books
- Former classmates describe him as “really liberal”
- He hated government – as opposed to wanting a more accountable government
- He was a 9/11 truther
- He loved flag burning
- He had no regard for human life

Show me a tea partier that has this same list. I challenge every single person mentioned in this article to do so or else they will go down in history as the biggest liars in media. Prove it.
Now show me a leftist who has this same list.

Jared Lee Loughner was a sick individual, period, who had been waving red flags for a very long time and left warning signs all over the Internet. He didn’t belong to a group, but if the left insists on putting him in one, they better check their premises: he isn’t tea party.

Think again, left. Do you really want to throw aside concern for the victims so you can fail at scoring political points? Do you, mainstream media, want to aid and abet this sad trick for political relevancy of an ideology voters historically rejected on November 2nd? Is it worth the last vestiges of your credibility?

What does it say about an ideology that instead of peacefully coexisting together, realizing that the majority of us have the same goals but different means of achieving them, exploits a tragedy and prematurely – and very incorrectly – pushes the narrative that somehow, a public desire for a more accountable government is a call to violence? What does it say about an ideology whose weak attempt at denunciation of violence actually incites violence and threats against their ideological antithesis?
This is what’s wrong with media. This is what’s wrong with progressivism.
This is what plagues America.

The Blame Game - Big Journalism
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:02 PM   #30
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Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona

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I agree...and you played right into it.
How so?

I'm definitely a Palin hater, but I'm not blaming her for this.

On a related but general note, I just think people in positions of power, or perceived power, need to consider the words they speak, or the tone they set sometimes, that's all.

That goes for both sides of the fence.
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