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Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Debating with the enemy


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Old 03-20-2011, 03:23 PM   #136
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

CRed, I think your figure is on the low end of the cost for a cruise. I think they cost as much as $1.4 million. I'm sure there are more sophisticated models that vary in range capability, accuracy, etc.

Here's an interesting link I unearthed. Also Wolf Blitzer Tweeted that the cost of each one is approx $1 mil. Not to suggest at all that your info is inaccurate, but perhaps we're deploying different models with different cost considerations.

TOMAHAWK CRUISE MISSILE
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:37 PM   #137
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

While I appreciate the updated cost information, I think talking about the price of the missiles is not really reaching a core issue. Whether we go with the low estimate or the high estimate, launching those missiles cost a buttload.

Reports have surfaced that civilians were killed. Of course there is no good reason to believe Qaddafy's claims on this count and the Arab League may not have good information. But obviously if a mission which is designed to protect civilians ends up killing many of them, something has gone wrong. So there is reason for concern here.
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Old 03-20-2011, 04:01 PM   #138
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

True, it's not the core issue and I'm sure no one here has lost sight of that. Still, it's relevant to the thread in terms of the "cost" of democracy. Or in this case removing a brutal autocratic regime who's time is up.

That said, casualties are and have always been a part of war. Always will be. I don't say that to be flippant, but this part of the decision making process.
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:33 PM   #139
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Really so the un now has control over who we have a war with. When did we change our Constitution and how did he strike first? Last I checked we struck him first.
This is not the same as the Iraq war. This is much more like the '90's action in Kosovo.

Give it up, dude. Your partisan arguments do not apply here.
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Old 03-20-2011, 06:42 PM   #140
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Partisan? I'm just applying the lefts standards to them. Whats wrong with that? I guess they are not against nation building any more either.

I notice you use a Bill Clinton war. LOL

Souldn't we be going after the Somalia Pirates that have actual attacked us several times.
You introduced left vs. right. That's what makes it partisan. Others were just talking.

Since I am neither Republican nor Democrat, why would I not use an appropriate example from the Clinton days?

BTW I have no problem with holding the pirates accountable. When they attack Americans, their next residence should be in a US jail.
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Old 03-20-2011, 07:56 PM   #141
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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You mean the unprovoked illegal war that Obama has started.
Dont you mean Bush?
Cause I heard the exact same phrase over and over years ago with his name tagged on it.
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Old 03-20-2011, 08:04 PM   #142
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Did you also hold those views about Sadam? After all he killed alot more people then this guy.
Dude what in the Sam Hill are you talking about?
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Old 03-21-2011, 07:15 AM   #143
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

I'd rather we took that Mediterranean coast line than the oil. You could jet ski back and forth to Sicily.
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Old 03-21-2011, 10:24 AM   #144
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Angry, yes we spent the money for those 100, but by using them, we guarantee having to replace them far before their shelf life expires. (unless we budget buying 100 new tomahawks each year for miscellaneous usage)
Trust me, we have more in stock. We are not going to be firing up the old war machine anytime soon. We are still trying to let it cool off from the last decade. Besides we can just chalk it up to a "Live firing exercise". Hey they needed the training right?
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Old 03-21-2011, 10:40 AM   #145
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I agree. If we are going to keep having illegal wars for oil like this at least lets get the price for gas down to a $1.
Haha yupp.
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Old 03-21-2011, 10:53 AM   #146
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

I think it's safe to say, as far as the U.S. is concerned, this is not about oil. Again, only about 2%-3% of the world's oil supply comes from Libya. If anything Europe has more strategic concerns over Libya's outcome than America.

As far as the legality of this "war" goes, I have no idea. But for Obama to wait for Congress to get it's act together after waiting weeks for the UN to pass a resolution would have been untenable, in my opinion. My guess is Congress will give Obama a pass as far as the constitutionality of this invasion goes, as long as he can clearly state our goals and mission.

Best case scenerio is for us to 'accidently' take Quadaffy out.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:10 PM   #147
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Man...seems like only yesterday

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Old 03-21-2011, 12:37 PM   #148
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Seems like we would have a goal and mission before we start dropping bombs. If he was really set on the idea of getting congressional approval then maybe he should have not gone on vacation.


Your probably right that taking him out by accident would be the best thing but then Obama should not have stated that he is not a target. Makes him look like a weak leader when he says he is not a target but we bomb his home.
I won't go there on the vacation thing, because clearly you're just being silly. Or at least I hope so.

The current mission is outlined by the UN resolution to basically demobilize Quaddafi's military capibility and protect the civilians and rebel forces. This is a coalition effort led by France and Great Britian, so the U.S role, as I understand it, is pretty limited in scope right now. President Obama never said that Khadffy was or wasn't a target. His language is and should be consistent with the UN resolution. That's not weak, that's smart.

In the coming days, however, he'll have to brief congressional leaders, as he should, on how long and how much we're committed to the no fly zone and what's the end game. With the exception of a few liberal Dems, no one is questioning the 'why' or whether the president is projecting adequate leadership. Besides, how could a guy that just took out your compound where you live possibly be mistaken for weak? It's silly.

But the real reason I keep weighing in is to see how many different ways I can misspell Gadhafy's name.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:46 PM   #149
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

To clarify, I think the government is saying he isn't a target but I don't remember those specific words coming from Obama's mouth. And even so, who cares what's being said the dude has a fat bullseye on his back and everyone knows it.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:27 PM   #150
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
I won't go there on the vacation thing, because clearly you're just being silly. Or at least I hope so.

The current mission is outlined by the UN resolution to basically demobilize Quaddafi's military capibility and protect the civilians and rebel forces. This is a coalition effort led by France and Great Britian, so the U.S role, as I understand it, is pretty limited in scope right now. President Obama never said that Khadffy was or wasn't a target. His language is and should be consistent with the UN resolution. That's not weak, that's smart.

In the coming days, however, he'll have to brief congressional leaders, as he should, on how long and how much we're committed to the no fly zone and what's the end game. With the exception of a few liberal Dems, no one is questioning the 'why' or whether the president is projecting adequate leadership. Besides, how could a guy that just took out your compound where you live possibly be mistaken for weak? It's silly.

But the real reason I keep weighing in is to see how many different ways I can misspell Gadhafy's name.
I have heard Obama say that regime change is up to the Libyan people. I take that to mean that the strategy of the coalition is to create the conditions under which a revolt might be successful and then leave it up to Libyans themselves to depose Qaddafy. If so, it is not a bad strategy, in that it looks out for humanitarian issues but it doesn't lead to the inflamed tempers which would result from US ground troops and a US targeted killing.
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