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Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Debating with the enemy


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Old 03-20-2011, 08:45 AM   #166
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

You mean the unprovoked illegal war that Obama has started.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:27 AM   #167
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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You mean the unprovoked illegal war that Obama has started.
Not unprovoked: Qaddafy struck first

Not illegal: the action was approved by the UN and is not in violation of principles of international law

This action is nothing like the unprovoked illegal action in Iraq of March 2003.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:40 AM   #168
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Whatever the case may be, I think we have remove him at all costs and not drag this out.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:41 AM   #169
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Whatever the case may be, I think we have remove him at all costs and not drag this out.
This.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:51 AM   #170
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Not unprovoked: Qaddafy struck first

Not illegal: the action was approved by the UN and is not in violation of principles of international law

This action is nothing like the unprovoked illegal action in Iraq of March 2003.
Did he strike us first? Or did he just strike first? Or are we talking about 1985 here?

I don't know that this had to be done now. On the other hand, most people here are old enough to remember when Gaddafi was enemy #1 back in the '80s, the Saddam and Bin Laden combined of his day. In other words, maybe this should have been done a long time ago.

Now...what will he do about Yemen?

By the way, so much for Obama doing nothing while on vacation in Rio, eh firstdown?
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:56 AM   #171
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

At least we are not sending ground troops. They are strung out enough.

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Old 03-20-2011, 12:26 PM   #172
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The hypocrisy of our political process is amazing. Or better said the hoops people will jump through to justify the actions of their party leaders is amazing. Here we are firing over 100 cruise missiles (at a cost probably around 65 million dollars) at another arab country. And now even the Arab league which supported a no fly zone is saying that the airstrikes are overly aggressive.
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Old 03-20-2011, 12:55 PM   #173
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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The hypocrisy of our political process is amazing. Or better said the hoops people will jump through to justify the actions of their party leaders is amazing. Here we are firing over 100 cruise missiles (at a cost probably in the hundreds of millions of dollars) at another arab country. And now even the Arab league which supported a no fly zone is saying that the airstrikes are overly aggressive.
CRed, personally I worry about those costs. As you indicated, those Tomahawks are not cheap.

However, if the international community is going to do this, it ought to be done right. Aircraft, anti-aircraft sites, radar sites, and other heavy hardware would have to be taken out to support a no-fly zone. It is difficult for me, and the Arab League for that matter, to adjudge exactly how much strike is needed to do this and how much might be superfluous.

What really concerns me are the comments that what has happened represents only the first wave of attacks. I wonder what is yet to happen.
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Old 03-20-2011, 01:29 PM   #174
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

This was going to largely be a US led intervention regardless of what country struck Libyan targets first. This is the unfortunate price of being the most powerful nation in the world.

It was a little sad to see John McCain and Lindsey Graham criticizing the goverenment and the president for not acting sooner, as if the situation would be that much better without any international support.

CRed, I think each cruise cost about a mil per, so yeah do the math. It's crazy how we cry about the deficit incessantly, yet place a fleet of war ships off the coast of Tripoli and bomb away.
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Old 03-20-2011, 01:39 PM   #175
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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This was going to largely be a US led intervention regardless of what country struck Libyan targets first. This is the unfortunate price of being the most powerful nation in the world.

It was a little sad to see John McCain and Lindsey Graham criticizing the goverenment and the president for not acting sooner, as if the situation would be that much better without any international support.

CRed, I think each cruise cost about a mil per, so yeah do the math. It's crazy how we cry about the deficit incessantly, yet place a fleet of war ships off the coast of Tripoli and bomb away.
I heard that you could get them for about 900K on e-bay. Craigslist might have a better deal though.

Seriously, I scoff at those prices after the R&D has been performed the cost of manufacturing is not that high. I sometimes feel that people arbitrarily throw those cost numbers around to support their agenda; just like the article that estimated the cost of the Super Bowl flyover. In reality it's money already spent.
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:04 PM   #176
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

The process and poor execution is what pisses of people. I am willing to spend 1 million dollar per Tomahawk to protect civilians...always have, always will.
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:47 PM   #177
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

The cruise missiles are about 560,000 each according to various websites. Interestingly the cost of this strike is about the same as would be saved by defunding NPR. I know the 2 aren't related, just interesting to me.

If launching 100 cruise guaranteed civilian safety sure, but it really doesn't, and my guess, is it will just tick Ghadaffi off, once he rolls through the resistance, which he will if no ground troops are ever involved, then he still will show no mercy and no bring terror to France and Europe.
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:49 PM   #178
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Angry, yes we spent the money for those 100, but by using them, we guarantee having to replace them far before their shelf life expires. (unless we budget buying 100 new tomahawks each year for miscellaneous usage)
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:23 PM   #179
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

CRed, I think your figure is on the low end of the cost for a cruise. I think they cost as much as $1.4 million. I'm sure there are more sophisticated models that vary in range capability, accuracy, etc.

Here's an interesting link I unearthed. Also Wolf Blitzer Tweeted that the cost of each one is approx $1 mil. Not to suggest at all that your info is inaccurate, but perhaps we're deploying different models with different cost considerations.

TOMAHAWK CRUISE MISSILE
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:37 PM   #180
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

While I appreciate the updated cost information, I think talking about the price of the missiles is not really reaching a core issue. Whether we go with the low estimate or the high estimate, launching those missiles cost a buttload.

Reports have surfaced that civilians were killed. Of course there is no good reason to believe Qaddafy's claims on this count and the Arab League may not have good information. But obviously if a mission which is designed to protect civilians ends up killing many of them, something has gone wrong. So there is reason for concern here.
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