Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Debating with the enemy


Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Debating with the enemy


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-22-2011, 03:16 PM   #166
Fire Bruce NOW
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 11,427
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
The UN does not have the power to give our president the OK to go to war. Please read your constitution. This is not a piece keeping mission this is a drooping bombs on a sovereign nation which IS THE SAME declaring war. Don you think Obama would do this if it was happening in China? No. Why? Because they can strike back and Lybia can't.
You are confusing what is legal in Constitutional law with what is legal under international law.

The Libya adventure is being critiqued in Congress in terms of the Constitution.

The Iraq fiasco was critiqued for being illegal in terms of international law.
__________________
Bruce Allen when in charge alone: 4-12 (.250)
Bruce Allen's overall Redskins record : 28-52 (.350)
Vinny Cerrato's record when in charge alone: 52-65 (.444)
Vinny's overall Redskins record: 62-82 (.430)
We won more with Vinny
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 03-22-2011, 04:43 PM   #167
Inactive
 
KLHJ2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DC Metro Area
Age: 36
Posts: 5,829
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

What national law did he break?

He did not declare a war and the last time I checked he was Commander in Chief. He can send the military to perform operations anywhere he wants to. He just cannot declare war without congressional approval. He did nothing wrong. Bush got away with far more.
KLHJ2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 04:48 PM   #168
MVP
 
12thMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: washington, D.C.
Posts: 11,458
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Yeah, no laws were broken. Just a lot of politicking and postering from some old farts whose asses are on the line in 2012.
12thMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 04:59 PM   #169
Playmaker
 
Alvin Walton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holland, Michigan
Posts: 4,597
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Peacekeeping mission?


We're blowing up his tanks and his trucks and planes and troops and command centers so the rebels will be able to take over the country.
Thats not peacekeeping, that's asskicking.

It's almost like we are hired mercs for the rebels.
__________________
REDSKINS FAN SINCE 1968
Alvin Walton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 05:09 PM   #170
Fire Bruce NOW
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 11,427
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
You have declared war when you drop bombs on another nation.
False. A declaration of war, politically and legally, is different from a peace keeping mission. A declaration of war is a formal gesture which has not happened in terms of Libya.
__________________
Bruce Allen when in charge alone: 4-12 (.250)
Bruce Allen's overall Redskins record : 28-52 (.350)
Vinny Cerrato's record when in charge alone: 52-65 (.444)
Vinny's overall Redskins record: 62-82 (.430)
We won more with Vinny
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 05:11 PM   #171
Fire Bruce NOW
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 11,427
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin Walton View Post
Peacekeeping mission?


We're blowing up his tanks and his trucks and planes and troops and command centers so the rebels will be able to take over the country.
Thats not peacekeeping, that's asskicking.

It's almost like we are hired mercs for the rebels.
I understand your perception. But it is called a peace keeping mission because without it Qaddafy would be slaughtering huge numbers of people.

Perhaps better than "peace keeping" we should call it "massacre inhibiting."
__________________
Bruce Allen when in charge alone: 4-12 (.250)
Bruce Allen's overall Redskins record : 28-52 (.350)
Vinny Cerrato's record when in charge alone: 52-65 (.444)
Vinny's overall Redskins record: 62-82 (.430)
We won more with Vinny
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 05:17 PM   #172
Playmaker
 
Slingin Sammy 33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,342
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Further, the action in Libya was mandated by the UN, rather than being in violation of UN standards like some other American military actions.
I know Iraq keeps getting thrown around, but let's not forget Bush received authorization for use of force from Congress....with bi-partisan support before the first bomb dropped.

Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Between Congress and the UN giving support, I'd rather have Congressional support.

Pres. Obama did not request congressional authorization for this action in Libya (although he's not required to get one). He had UN Security Council authorization, but keep in mind 5 countries abstained from voting, two who could have nixed the authorization (China, Russia). Putin BTW has come out blasting the US since the no-fly zone was imposed.

I would've much rather seen countries from the Arab League and Europe handle this from day one. We could've provided some logistics or intel support, but they should've taken the lead.
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.
Slingin Sammy 33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 05:25 PM   #173
Playmaker
 
Slingin Sammy 33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,342
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Perhaps better than "peace keeping" we should call it "massacre inhibiting."
Couldn't part of what we did in Iraq count as "massacre inhibiting".

Human rights in Saddam Hussein's Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.
Slingin Sammy 33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 05:26 PM   #174
Special Teams
 
BuckSkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Ohio
Age: 45
Posts: 232
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

A declaration of war is a formal declaration issued by a national government indicating that a state of war exists between that nation and another. For the United States, Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution says "Congress shall have power to ... declare War". The War Powers Resolution of 1973 (50 U.S.C. 15411548) was a United States Congress joint resolution providing that the President can send U.S. armed forces into action abroad only by authorization of Congress or if the United States is already under attack or serious threat. The War Powers Resolution requires the president to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war. The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding a presidential veto.
With that said the United States has only declared war 5 times in it's entire history. Clinton set the precedent with Operation Desert Fox and his two successors have followed suit.
__________________
"Any Nation willing to give up a little freedom, to gain a little security, will deserve neither, and lose both."
-Benjamin Franklin
BuckSkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 05:34 PM   #175
Playmaker
 
Alvin Walton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holland, Michigan
Posts: 4,597
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Obama has now fired more cruise missiles than all other Nobel Peace prize winners combined.

__________________
REDSKINS FAN SINCE 1968
Alvin Walton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 05:38 PM   #176
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 45,105
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Meanwhile in Yemen...
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 05:53 PM   #177
Fire Bruce NOW
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 11,427
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
I know Iraq keeps getting thrown around, but let's not forget Bush received authorization for use of force from Congress....with bi-partisan support before the first bomb dropped.

Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Between Congress and the UN giving support, I'd rather have Congressional support.

Pres. Obama did not request congressional authorization for this action in Libya (although he's not required to get one). He had UN Security Council authorization, but keep in mind 5 countries abstained from voting, two who could have nixed the authorization (China, Russia). Putin BTW has come out blasting the US since the no-fly zone was imposed.

I would've much rather seen countries from the Arab League and Europe handle this from day one. We could've provided some logistics or intel support, but they should've taken the lead.
Good points. I just mentioned Iraq because someone else did.

I definitely agree with your argument about the Arab League and Europe. Hopefully it will work out that way in the long term: we make a lot of noise on the first day (can't change that part now) but then drift into the shadows in the weeks ahead.
__________________
Bruce Allen when in charge alone: 4-12 (.250)
Bruce Allen's overall Redskins record : 28-52 (.350)
Vinny Cerrato's record when in charge alone: 52-65 (.444)
Vinny's overall Redskins record: 62-82 (.430)
We won more with Vinny
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 05:53 PM   #178
MVP
 
12thMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: washington, D.C.
Posts: 11,458
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
I know Iraq keeps getting thrown around, but let's not forget Bush received authorization for use of force from Congress....with bi-partisan support before the first bomb dropped.

Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Between Congress and the UN giving support, I'd rather have Congressional support.

Pres. Obama did not request congressional authorization for this action in Libya (although he's not required to get one). He had UN Security Council authorization, but keep in mind 5 countries abstained from voting, two who could have nixed the authorization (China, Russia). Putin BTW has come out blasting the US since the no-fly zone was imposed.

I would've much rather seen countries from the Arab League and Europe handle this from day one. We could've provided some logistics or intel support, but they should've taken the lead.
Essentially this is what's taking place. France dropped the first bomb and while we are launching Tomahawks, we're also providing logistical supand intel support. I think Obama is very eager to hand this Op over to NATO and the Europeans and recede into the background.

The bottom line is this, had President Obama waited longer many on the right would have accused him of being "weak" and "dithering". Their favorite word lately. Congress would still be, at this very moment, deciding whether or not to launch, how much the cost, calling in Generals to testify. All sorts of BS drawing this out even longer. Had he gone in sooner it would have been a unilateral campaign drawing the ire of everyone, except for John McCain and Joe Lieberman. So I think he got it right based on the little Constitutional wiggle room he has as Commander-in-Chief.
12thMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 05:55 PM   #179
Fire Bruce NOW
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 11,427
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
Essentially this is what's taking place. France dropped the first bomb and while we are launching Tomahawks, we're also providing logistical supand intel support. I think Obama is very eager to hand this Op over to NATO and the Europeans and recede into the background.

The bottom line is this, had President Obama waited longer many on the right would have accused him of being "weak" and "dithering". Their favorite word lately. Congress would still be, at this very moment, deciding whether or not to launch, how much the cost, calling in Generals to testify. All sorts of BS drawing this out even longer. Had he gone in sooner it would have been a unilateral campaign drawing the ire of everyone, except for John McCain and Joe Lieberman. So I think he got it right based on the little Constitutional wiggle room he has as Commander and Chief.
Sarah the Impaler from Alaska accused Obama of just that just hours before the bombs started falling.
__________________
Bruce Allen when in charge alone: 4-12 (.250)
Bruce Allen's overall Redskins record : 28-52 (.350)
Vinny Cerrato's record when in charge alone: 52-65 (.444)
Vinny's overall Redskins record: 62-82 (.430)
We won more with Vinny
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 06:02 PM   #180
MVP
 
12thMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: washington, D.C.
Posts: 11,458
Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Sarah the Impaler from Alaska accused Obama of just that just hours before the bombs started falling.
I'm sure Obama was following her presser to see if she gave him the green light to start bombing.This has to be the first time in the history of the world that a President sends 30,000 troops into battle, doubles down on Drone strikes in Pakistan, and engages in warfare in Libya yet is being accused of being weak on national security. Huh?

What's scary --really scary-- is that this woman is running for president and her followers believe everything she says.
12thMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.32404 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25