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Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Debating with the enemy


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Old 03-23-2011, 02:38 PM   #196
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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If we bombed China or Japan people would view it declaring war because they have the military to strike back.
Be pretty impressive since Japan doesn't have a real military. They never re-armed themselves after WW2 restrictions were lifted.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:47 PM   #197
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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When did I ever say I was against going into Lybia?
Thats right FD you stand shoulder to shoulder with the President on this one
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:50 PM   #198
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
Probably not the best example but they do spend over 45 billion a year on their Military so they are not some harmless third world nation.
What Daseal was referring to, is Japan's constitution forbids forming a standing army. They do however, have a para-military organization used outside of Japan for peace keeping and humanitarian operations/ missions.
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:15 PM   #199
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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BS, it is not an official declaration of War. If that is the Case then we declared War on Iraq back in 2008 and I was there. I did not recieve a combat patch for that "conflict". Get a clue before you post some crap like that.

Must have been a typo Angry, but were you referring to Desert Fox in December of 1998 instead of OIF in 2008?
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:45 PM   #200
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
LOL...these countries are under a lot of pressure internally, especially Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Jordon, and you want them to help squash another countries internal turmoil? I refuse to believe you're that stupid. What is the objective? Get dictators under pressure to help defend civilians from being killed by their dictator? It's almost as laughable as having Libya a member of the UN Human Rights Council.

Oh look, Saudis are sending troops to Bahrain to help squash their revolution and save the royal family: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/wo...15bahrain.html

I am very disappointed in you SS33!!!
OK ??? So the Saudis and UAE have enough juice to roll into Bahrain (on the ground no less) to protect their interests, but couldn't help lead a coalition of 7 or 8 Arab countries with the Brits & French to take out Libya's air defenses and impose a No Fly Zone.

Sorry to disappoint ???? C'mon man.
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:52 PM   #201
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Actually I don't agree with how he went about doing this but as long as we have men risking their life I stand behind Obama and them 100% until they are home safe. I'm just some guy on the internet having fun with a bunch of liberals who spewed this stuff for year at Bush and now their man has us off fighting an illegal war for oil. I think I'm going to by me one of these T Shirts and go have a protest this weekend.


Given that:
a) the United States imports virtually no oil from Libya
b) the plans are to have no boots on the ground, making it impossible to take oil, and
c) Halliburton's oil firm is not involved in this conflict, unlike in other places

You have not at all established how our involvement in Libya has anything to do with taking oil.
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:52 PM   #202
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
OK ??? So the Saudis and UAE have enough juice to roll into Bahrain (on the ground no less) to protect their interests, but couldn't help lead a coalition of 7 or 8 Arab countries with the Brits & French to take out Libya's air defenses and impose a No Fly Zone.

Sorry to disappoint ???? C'mon man.
Lets see, Saudis went into Bahrain to defend the Royal Family there and squash revolution. So the question becomes what do you expect them to do when they decide to go into Libya? To defend a similarly revolting population from Gaddafi?

I really can't understand your thinking process here. It baffles the mind. I want no part in letting the wolves protect the sheep and neither should you!
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:58 PM   #203
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Lets see, Saudis went into Bahrain to defend the Royal Family there and squash revolution. So the question becomes what do you expect them to do when they decide to go into Libya? To defend a similarly revolting population from Gaddafi?

I really can't understand your thinking process here. It baffles the mind. I want no part in letting the wolves protect the sheep and neither should you!
Libya and Bahrain are apple vs. orange. In Bahrain, the Saudis (Sunnis) were defending a Sunni regime against a Shi'i popular revolt. In Libya, both the government and the rebels are Sunni. And the Saudis have never been great friends with Qaddafy.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:48 PM   #204
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Lets see, Saudis went into Bahrain to defend the Royal Family there and squash revolution. So the question becomes what do you expect them to do when they decide to go into Libya? To defend a similarly revolting population from Gaddafi?

I really can't understand your thinking process here. It baffles the mind. I want no part in letting the wolves protect the sheep and neither should you!
Great points by Lotus.

Look all I'm saying is, the Arab League called for the No Fly Zone. The French and Brits drew up plans. Let them take the lead if they want it so bad. Again, I'm not saying we should've withheld support. But with all we're dealing with in the Middle East (not to mention our perception with much of the Muslim population), let these guys take the lead and just provide Logistics/Intel. We didn't need to take point.
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:18 PM   #205
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Libya and Bahrain are apple vs. orange. In Bahrain, the Saudis (Sunnis) were defending a Sunni regime against a Shi'i popular revolt. In Libya, both the government and the rebels are Sunni. And the Saudis have never been great friends with Qaddafy.
What is your point? Sectarian conflict is more problematic than clan-centric conflict (see Somalia)? That one is more acceptable than the other? That Saudis who are battling their own unrest are more open to killing Shia population on behalf of the Royal Family of Bahrain and willing to defend Sunni population against Gaddafi?

When people are oppressed there are no apples and oranges to compare...just body count numbers. Simply don't trust an oppressor like Saudi Arabia to do the right thing...OKay?
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:19 PM   #206
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
Great points by Lotus.

Look all I'm saying is, the Arab League called for the No Fly Zone. The French and Brits drew up plans. Let them take the lead if they want it so bad. Again, I'm not saying we should've withheld support. But with all we're dealing with in the Middle East (not to mention our perception with much of the Muslim population), let these guys take the lead and just provide Logistics/Intel. We didn't need to take point.
Unacceptable! Talk about giving the keys to the car to a drunkard. If you don't want to take the point let the French take the point...they seem to be willing. I'm very disturbed that you place your faith in the Saudis to do the right thing.

BTW, the Arab League withdrew its support for the no Fly-Zone within hours of granting it.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:27 PM   #207
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Unacceptable! Talk about giving the keys to the car to a drunkard. If you don't want to take the point let the French take the point...they seem to be willing. I'm very disturbed that you place your faith in the Saudis to do the right thing.

BTW, the Arab League withdrew its support for the no Fly-Zone within hours of granting it.
I think they've since clarified their position and they're still on board.

I'm kind of surprised, though, that SlinginSammy isn't endorsing a unilatteral (sp) intervention and calling for Obama's head like Romney, Pawlenty, and Gingrich. I guess I appreciate you seeing beyond the politics of all this.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:45 PM   #208
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
I think they've since clarified their position and they're still on board.

I'm kind of surprised, though, that SlinginSammy isn't endorsing a unilatteral (sp) intervention and calling for Obama's head like Romney, Pawlenty, and Gingrich. I guess I appreciate you seeing beyond the politics of all this.
Agreed. Sammy is ruling the discussion in a good way.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:01 AM   #209
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
What is your point? Sectarian conflict is more problematic than clan-centric conflict (see Somalia)? That one is more acceptable than the other? That Saudis who are battling their own unrest are more open to killing Shia population on behalf of the Royal Family of Bahrain and willing to defend Sunni population against Gaddafi?

When people are oppressed there are no apples and oranges to compare...just body count numbers. Simply don't trust an oppressor like Saudi Arabia to do the right thing...OKay?
I agree that the Saudis cannot be trusted to do the right thing. I wasn't even arguing that they are doing the right thing. I simply indicated that Bahrain and Libya are different realities in their eyes, especially when it comes to the respective ruling regimes.
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:13 AM   #210
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
I'm kind of surprised, though, that SlinginSammy isn't endorsing a unilatteral (sp) intervention and calling for Obama's head like Romney, Pawlenty, and Gingrich. I guess I appreciate you seeing beyond the politics of all this.
LOL. Some of us conservatives can keep you guessing.
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