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Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Debating with the enemy


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Old 02-28-2011, 12:45 PM   #91
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
You cannot be a consultant for a corporation when your VP of the US. That tells me your info is completely wrong and you have your facts wrong.
On the Sept. 14, 2003 edition of NBC's Meet the Press, Vice President Dick Cheney said, "And since I left Halliburton to become George Bush's vice president, I've severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interest. I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had, now, for over three years."

But, just as Cheney's wild claims about weapons of mass destruction turned out to be untrue and his claim that Halliburton had no ties to Saddam Hussein was bogus, his denial about profiting from Halliburton as vice president was also a bald-face lie. So while Cheney denied any relationship with Halliburton as vice president, he conveniently forgot to mention that he continues to receive from the company deferred salary of over $150,000 while maintaining 433,333 shares of unexercised stock options. Certainly, Cheney has a "financial interest in Halliburton" while working as vice president.

When confronted with the proof of his ongoing financial ties with Halliburton, Cheney responded by claiming his deferred salary and stock options are not actually a "financial interest" as defined by federal ethics standards and therefore not a conflict of interest. This prompted the Congressional Research Service to issue a report which confirmed Cheney's ongoing financial interest in Halliburton "is considered among the 'ties' retained in or 'linkages to former employers' that may 'represent a continuing financial interest' in those employers which makes them potential conflicts of interest."

Caught in another lie, Cheney manufactured another excuse: He said the financial interest in Halliburton is not tied to the success or failure of the company because of an insurance policy. In other words, the insurance policy, which guarantees his financial interest will be paid to him regardless of Halliburton's success or failure, is proof there is no quid-pro-quo. He also said the stock options will be donated to charity, rather than used for his personal gain.

It's clear that Cheney broke the ethics law, but both the president and vice president are exempt from the enforcement of such laws. Therefore, Cheney cannot be prosecuted for his conflict of interest or his lie.

DEFERRED SALARY: Cheney received $205,298 in deferred salary from Halliburton in 2001, $162,392 from the company in 2002 and $178,437 in 2003. Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) said, "Deferred salary is not a retirement benefit or a payment from a third party escrow account, but rather an ongoing corporate obligation paid from company funds."

STOCK OPTIONS: The Vice President has signed an agreement to donate any profits from his stock options to charity, and has pledged not to take any tax deduction for the donations. Should Halliburton's stock price increase over the next few years, the Vice President could exercise his stock options for a substantial profit, benefiting not only his designated charities, but also providing Halliburton with a substantial tax deduction.

Halliburton Stock Options Currently Held by Cheney (current to end of 2002): 100,000 shares at $54.5000 (vested), expire 12-03-07; 33,333 shares at $28.1250 (vested), expire 12-02-08; 300,000 shares at $39.5000 (vested), expire 12-02-09.

Cheney's deferred compensation and stock option benefits are in addition to a $20 million retirement package paid to him by Halliburton after only five years of employment; a $1.4 million cash bonus paid to him by Halliburton in 2001; and additional millions of dollars in compensation paid to him while he was employed by the company.

In 2002, Cheney's total assets were valued at between $19.1 million and $86.4 million.


More Information

CRS Report that Confirms that Cheney Deferred Salary and Stock Options Constitute a "Financial Interest in Halliburton

CBS News: Cheney's Halliburton Ties Remain

Reuters: Cheney took in $178,437 from Halliburton in 2003



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Old 02-28-2011, 12:56 PM   #92
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Please tell me that you do not believe this obsolete propaganda.

Iraq had no WMD's. Iran and N.Korea did in 2003. So if we were going to invade to dismantle WMD's, we invaded the wrong place.

As for "brutal dictators," by 2003 Saddam had been thoroughly neutered by UN sanctions and did not really control 2/3 of the country. So in 2003 he was still "brutal," but hardly a powerful dictator. But there were other brutal dictators who were more powerful. If we just wanted to dismantle the rule of a brutal dictator, we picked the wrong place.

Apparently you are not aware that the Iraqi oil industry was rebuilt by Halliburton, Cheney's company. So while we did not colonize Iraq or steal their oil, Cheney made a mint off of the invasion.

Further, both Bush and Cheney are heavily invested in several military industries. Every bullet and every shell that we fired in Iraq lined Bush and Cheney's pockets. Remember when the Halliburton subsidiary KBR was caught red-handed charging outrageous fees for meals, laundry, etc., for soldiers?
Ok Lotus now go back and re read what I wrote... the statement Ruhskins made was that we invaded to steal their oil... I simply corrected Ruhskins by saying that we didnt invade to steal oil... if we had why dont we have it?? We went in "under the threat" of WMD's... I didnt say that we found any first off... and secondly if you think the UN neutered Saddam in any way you are grossly mistaken... As a matter of fact Russia, France as well as Germany all 3 still had oil contracts with Saddam that directly violated the UN Sanction of Oil for Food. Also during the whole Monica Lewinski scandal in 1998 Saddam kick the weapons inspectors out of Iraq so for more than 5 yrs we had not monitored their weapons programs so when the NIE came across Bush's desk in February of 2003 stating that Iraq HAD purchased or ATTEMPTED to purchase Urainium yellowcake from Niger we couldnt verify whether he did or didnt. Now to Bush's credit he spent 13 months trying to get Saddam to allow weapons inspector back in so we could verify what programs he did or didnt have... he balked at us and refused. Bush finally made a stand and told Saddam that if we didnt have weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq by March of 2003 that we would attack.. Saddam continued to "Stand defiantly in the face of the US!!" Im sure you remember all of those headlines in the USA Today etc... all the papers ran it as a cover page headline... I was in the first Persian Gulf War and I knew when we left that we would have to go back... it was just a matter of how long would it take. In the future read what I have written before you just automatically assume Im on one side or the other.
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:24 PM   #93
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by Tiggwin View Post
Ok Lotus now go back and re read what I wrote... the statement Ruhskins made was that we invaded to steal their oil... I simply corrected Ruhskins by saying that we didnt invade to steal oil... if we had why dont we have it?? We went in "under the threat" of WMD's... I didnt say that we found any first off... and secondly if you think the UN neutered Saddam in any way you are grossly mistaken... As a matter of fact Russia, France as well as Germany all 3 still had oil contracts with Saddam that directly violated the UN Sanction of Oil for Food. Also during the whole Monica Lewinski scandal in 1998 Saddam kick the weapons inspectors out of Iraq so for more than 5 yrs we had not monitored their weapons programs so when the NIE came across Bush's desk in February of 2003 stating that Iraq HAD purchased or ATTEMPTED to purchase Urainium yellowcake from Niger we couldnt verify whether he did or didnt. Now to Bush's credit he spent 13 months trying to get Saddam to allow weapons inspector back in so we could verify what programs he did or didnt have... he balked at us and refused. Bush finally made a stand and told Saddam that if we didnt have weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq by March of 2003 that we would attack.. Saddam continued to "Stand defiantly in the face of the US!!" Im sure you remember all of those headlines in the USA Today etc... all the papers ran it as a cover page headline... I was in the first Persian Gulf War and I knew when we left that we would have to go back... it was just a matter of how long would it take. In the future read what I have written before you just automatically assume Im on one side or the other.
Please update your information:

1) I agree that your were responding to Ruh's claim about oil. I did read your post. But you went on to talk about WMD's, which was mistaken. I responded to that.

2) There were UN weapons inspectors in Iraq until the bombs started dropping in March 2003. Bush, however, was too impatient to let them do their work.
Weapons Inspectors Leave Iraq - CBS News

Also, your view fails to take into account that if we wanted to stop the spread of WMD's, Iran and N.Korea were obviously better targets.

3) The claim about the purchase of uranium from Niger proved to be hoaxed. CIA director George Tenet told the White House that the documents were false yet the White House continued to make the claim. Joe Wilson revealed the hoax. Then, in retaliation, a senior Bush administration official "outed" his wife Valerie Plame as a CIA agent, thus effectively ending her career in the field.
Niger uranium forgeries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All of this is why I said that you were the victim of "obsolete propaganda."
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:27 PM   #94
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
Good point, how 'bout we stick to the topic, and quit bashing current and former presidents.
yeah that was actually the context of the "give it a rest" comment, probably should have said stick to the topic. It was right after the thread title change and FD couldnt wait to blame Obama for Oil prices. Still relevant as a result of whats going on, but not directly. Had to reference the short term memeory issue, but bottomline...presidents really cant do anything about it oil price. But when it comes to policy and alternatives to foreign oil, yeah something can be done.
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:50 PM   #95
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
From your link

The deferred salary is based on a 1998 agreement in which Cheney elected to defer compensation earned in 1999 for his employment as CEO of Halliburton. This deferred salary is paid in annual installments, with interest, over the five years after Cheney's retirement from Halliburton.

That agreement is in writing and was done before DC was even in office or even running as VP. Trying to make something from nothing.
It does not matter for this issue when the deferments started. The fact is that while in office Cheney had a stake in Halliburton's profitablity (without that profitability he could not have been paid his deferments).

So, by your own argument, Cheney had a stake in Halliburton's financial success in Iraq during the war.
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Old 02-28-2011, 02:46 PM   #96
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
You ned to read a little better.

From The Link:

On the other hand, there is a possibility that if the company went bankrupt it would be unable to pay. That raises the theoretical possibility of a conflict of interest -- if the public interest somehow demanded that Cheney take action that would hurt Halliburton it could conceivably end up costing him money personally. So to insulate himself from that possible conflict, Cheney purchased an insurance policy (which cost him $14,903) that promises to pay him all the deferred compensation that Halliburton owes him even if the company goes bust and refuses to pay.
He's a real piece of work...Evil genius!
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:23 PM   #97
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
You ned to read a little better.

From The Link:

On the other hand, there is a possibility that if the company went bankrupt it would be unable to pay. That raises the theoretical possibility of a conflict of interest -- if the public interest somehow demanded that Cheney take action that would hurt Halliburton it could conceivably end up costing him money personally. So to insulate himself from that possible conflict, Cheney purchased an insurance policy (which cost him $14,903) that promises to pay him all the deferred compensation that Halliburton owes him even if the company goes bust and refuses to pay.
But as an unpaid consultant during his time in office, he'd still rather get the money from Halliburton rather than an insurance policy, right? And he wanted to return to financial involvement with Halliburton after he was in office, right?

Please stop defending the indefensible. Between Halliburton, the Carlyle Group, and Bechtel, Cheney had a strong financial stake in the Iraq war. It is just that simple.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:45 PM   #98
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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That was just a fabrication of the left and never the reason for the war.
Neither was WMDs.

Once again, reason nothing gets done in this country, people are too busy sticking to their party line and don't know much about compromise. Each side blindly bitches about the other side. For every complaint that the left makes, you can find a similar complain from the right and vice versa. And for every f*ck up the right makes, you can find something similar from the left.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:17 PM   #99
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

Why do we say, rat's ass?

Where did that come from, First?

How come it's not a roach's ass...or an elephant's ass. Or a monkey's nose? I don't appreciate the way we disparage rats around here.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:33 PM   #100
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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I don't even give a rats ass I'm just pointing out what you seem to keep reading over. Why would DC even care who gives him the money? You keep saying he had this financial stake in the war but you have no evidence even when the evidence say he did not.
Actually I've produced a lot of evidence above. But you ignore it because you don't give a "rat's ass."
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:38 PM   #101
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

So, back to the Middle East, anything new going on?
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:45 PM   #102
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

We just froze $30 Billion in Libyan assets. I think we're sending a couple of ships over there as we speak, which means we might try to impose a no fly zone.

Other than that, Gaddafi is insane and will hopefully be gone very, very soon.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:51 PM   #103
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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So, back to the Middle East, anything new going on?
The Mubaraks waited too long to get money out of the bank and flee.
Egypt seizes Mubarak family funds - Yahoo! News
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:28 AM   #104
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We just froze $30 Billion in Libyan assets. I think we're sending a couple of ships over there as we speak, which means we might try to impose a no fly zone.

Other than that, Gaddafi is insane and will hopefully be gone very, very soon.
Yeah he is

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Old 03-01-2011, 12:14 PM   #105
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Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011

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Wouldn't that be considered nation building?
No, it's called genocide prevention.
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