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Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

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Old 02-15-2011, 04:00 PM   #31
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

Firstdown, the reality is that increasing taxes on the 40% who currently pay nothing into the system is like trying to extract blood from a stone. Taking a chunk out of their income wouldn't generate much, because their income is below the median in the first place.

I actually agree that taxes will have to increase on the rich at some point. Definitely against my economic principles. I'd let the economy get stabilized a little further before doing that, but once the economy is in good shape again, we'll have to get more from our highest earners. I would never recommend that under normal circumstances, but debts of this level have not been seen since the 1940s, so it calls for unusual measures.

In addition, Obama needs to make a lot more spending cuts. Social security needs the overhaul Bush tried to make. Those funds need to be invested more wisely and benefits pushed back to later years. Defense spending can come down too; some of the stuff we're capable of is just friggin overkill.
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:04 PM   #32
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

PS the US median household income in 2010 was $49,700. Meaning half the households in the country earned less, half earned more.

$70K is a nice living, relatively speaking. Will it solve all your problems? Hell no, but at least you can eat, bathe, sleep safely, drive to and from your job, and enjoy cable TV.

Let's keep things in perspective, FD.
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Old 02-15-2011, 05:11 PM   #33
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

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I was trying to give Saden a hard time. I realize 70 grand is not low income but when he said his friend paid no taxes I figured its because he is consider low income under the current tax system. Add in the fact he has 5 kids then that could be the case. I would think that most here agree if your making 70 grand a year you should be paying taxes.
Actually I don't necessarily agree. I can defend just about every deduction in the current code that would affect the middle class:

- if you've got 5 children and you make 70K, that's not a lot to go around, so you should get that child credit.

- you need mortgage interest deductions in place or the incentive to buy your own home is greatly reduced. it would crush the housing market at a time when it can't afford it

- student loan interest deductions? if kids couldn't deduct it, enrollment in college would decline, or more would default on their loans. either result is not good for our future or economy in the present day

If I have any beef with the current tax code, it's with the deductions offered to the wealthy.

Tax code is complicated people, deal with it. It's that way for a reason.
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:19 PM   #34
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

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Actually I don't necessarily agree. I can defend just about every deduction in the current code that would affect the middle class:

- if you've got 5 children and you make 70K, that's not a lot to go around, so you should get that child credit.

- you need mortgage interest deductions in place or the incentive to buy your own home is greatly reduced. it would crush the housing market at a time when it can't afford it

- student loan interest deductions? if kids couldn't deduct it, enrollment in college would decline, or more would default on their loans. either result is not good for our future or economy in the present day

If I have any beef with the current tax code, it's with the deductions offered to the wealthy.

Tax code is complicated people, deal with it. It's that way for a reason.
Maybe they shouldn't have 5 kids and reduce the pool of taxpayers and leave us to pickup the slack? The world could use less critters...isn't that right FD?
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:24 PM   #35
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

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Maybe they shouldn't have 5 kids and reduce the pool of taxpayers and leave us to pickup the slack? The world could use less critters...isn't that right FD?
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:45 PM   #36
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

I am a benevolent dictator. I would let you choose between more kids less benefits, less kids more benefits. I mean, it can't be worse than the current policy of more kids more benefits, less kids less benefits.


Think about it, you would benefit because the tax burden on you is less and there would be less useless little toddlers who you have to subsidize and compete for natural resources with. You'd be king of the mofo jungle! The planet could use your help folks.
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:16 PM   #37
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

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So you have a problem with our current system that gives more benefits to mother on well fair who have more children?
I don't believe in handing people money because they have more kids. That isn't to say the government shouldn't provide some level of help (i.e. SCHIP, daycare, school lunch, education grants etc) to low income families.

Conservatives think only the poor don't pay taxes or get perks which clearly isn't true. I mean, there isn't enough poor people in this country for 47% of the population to not pay taxes.

Poverty in America from the census: http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/11s0708.pdf
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:11 PM   #38
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

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Thats the problem. The group of people not paying any federal income taxes has grown past the poor into the lower middle income to middle income. The poor is clearly the ones receiving the perks without paying into the system.
The reason the middle class are fitting into that 47% is not because they don't earn enough to be taxed, it's because they meet enough deductions and credits to not pay.

If you didn't give them the mortgage interest deduction credt, then the price of your house will go way down. If you didn't give them the child tax credit, more kids would just end up needing financial aid for college, because college savings are exactly what would get sacrificed.

If you want to change that 47% number you're talking about doing away with deductions, almost all of which need to be there, and if they're not there, there will be negative consequences for all of us.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:38 PM   #39
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

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The reason the middle class are fitting into that 47% is not because they don't earn enough to be taxed, it's because they meet enough deductions and credits to not pay.

If you didn't give them the mortgage interest deduction credt, then the price of your house will go way down. If you didn't give them the child tax credit, more kids would just end up needing financial aid for college, because college savings are exactly what would get sacrificed.

If you want to change that 47% number you're talking about doing away with deductions, almost all of which need to be there, and if they're not there, there will be negative consequences for all of us.

So you want those with no children or less children and those with no mortgages to subsidize these people?
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:14 PM   #40
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

FYI to those who don't know.
Debts and deficits are not the same thing. Debts are a stock variable while deficits are a flow variable.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:19 PM   #41
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

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So you want those with no children or less children and those with no mortgages to subsidize these people?
Yes.

There needs to be an incentive to buy homes or the housing market will collapse in this economy. And those making 70K and supporting 3 kids deserve a bit more help from the government than those making 70K with no kids.
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:54 PM   #42
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I am a benevolent dictator. I would let you choose between more kids less benefits, less kids more benefits. I mean, it can't be worse than the current policy of more kids more benefits, less kids less benefits.


Think about it, you would benefit because the tax burden on you is less and there would be less useless little toddlers who you have to subsidize and compete for natural resources with. You'd be king of the mofo jungle! The planet could use your help folks.
There could be hope for you yet!
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:27 PM   #43
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

Why do anything to discourage population growth?? I don't understand that at all.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:30 PM   #44
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

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Why do anything to discourage population growth?? I don't understand that at all.
The obvious budget implications. Societal dilemma's.......Oh yea, a Paved Planet is an unhappy planet...we have an unhappy planet
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:55 AM   #45
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Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy

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The obvious budget implications. Societal dilemma's.......Oh yea, a Paved Planet is an unhappy planet...we have an unhappy planet
We might run out of food, oil, and asphalt before paving the planet...or we might kill eachother for them.
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