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Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

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Old 10-13-2011, 03:29 PM   #346
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Few things:

1. If you turn 999 upside down what do you get? You get the devil and we all know the devil is in the details.

2. Herman Cain proposed a federal sales tax and thus taking away or marginalizing the power of a state to manage its own sales tax policy and the conservatives cheer?

3. Per his request as reflected in his performance I'm going to officially eliminate Perry from contention.

4. Romney looks like he is going to get his wish...it's a shame he will get get creamed by Obama.
I don't think the Cain sales tax has any affect on the states taxes. Why would it?
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:30 PM   #347
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

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I think if Cain slides, and he could given the fluid nature of the field, his support would go back to Perry. Romney's ceiling seems to be in the 22% range since day one. Romney will get his breakthrough once he's nominated. Even that isn't looking like a slam dunk, though I expect it to happen.
I tend to agree with you there, GOP establishment is hard to break. Too much $$$ and entrenched influence.

I was initially pretty bored with the whole primary, but with some of the recent twists & turns and Cain's surge, it's caught my interest. Chico brought up a great point about people wanting solutions over style. It'll be very interesting how it plays out.
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:32 PM   #348
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

It will be fun to watch as Cain gains momentum how is the left going to bash him without being the raciest they call everyone who disagrees with Obama?
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:41 PM   #349
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

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You want a businessman...but you don't want Mitt?
Personally no. It's my understanding he has endorsed Obama's health care plan. I don't like the plan, so ... I don't like him.

I know I won't find the "perfect" candidate but the health care topic is a biggie for me. I'll pass on Romney.

I do like the fact Cain has the Tea Party behind him but again he just doesn't stand out as Presidential material. I also don't like the whole 999 theory he has.

and lastly lets be honest, the Republican party will throw whoever they think has the best chance of winning against Obama. Common sense I know but the problem is they are letting all the best candidates walk away and simply giving the public crap. So now they are throwing the crap against the wall to see who sticks and then throw all their endorsements into crap, package it up with nice paper and throw a bow on it, leaving the voters to either pick crap vs. crap.

I feel sorry for the Republican party. I'm an Independant and vote for whom I think will be the best candidate, but Republicans must be scratching their heads like me wondering why they are letting better candidates simply opt out.

Bob McDonnell-Virginia
Jeb Bush-Florida
Donald Trump
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:43 PM   #350
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

I see. Well I just thought it was interesting that you seemed to be touting Trump for his business experience but not considering Romney a businessman
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:48 PM   #351
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

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I do like the fact Cain has the Tea Party behind him but again he just doesn't stand out as Presidential material. I also don't like the whole 999 theory he has.
Cain's 9-9-9 plan is just the first phase in moving to the FairTax system. If you haven't read about it, it's worth looking into. It will jump start the economy and reduce the IRS to a small fraction of what it is today. It removes the complexities of the tax code and closes virtually all tax loopholes.

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I feel sorry for the Republican party. I'm an Independant and vote for whom I think will be the best candidate, but Republicans must be scratching their heads like me wondering why they are letting better candidates simply opt out.
I'd be comfortable with Romney or Herman Cain, both would do a good job as POTUS. I think Gingrich would do well as POTUS, but he could never win a general election.
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:48 PM   #352
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

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I feel sorry for the Republican party. I'm an Independant and vote for whom I think will be the best candidate, but Republicans must be scratching their heads like me wondering why they are letting better candidates simply opt out.

Bob McDonnell-Virginia
Jeb Bush-Florida
Donald Trump
I see this upcoming presidential election for the Republicans, the same way it was for the Democrats in 2004. They have an incumbent president that should be easy to beat, but they will put a candidate that the party will "settle for" and lose.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:02 PM   #353
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

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Cain's 9-9-9 plan is just the first phase in moving to the FairTax system. If you haven't read about it, it's worth looking into. It will jump start the economy and reduce the IRS to a small fraction of what it is today. It removes the complexities of the tax code and closes virtually all tax loopholes.

I'd be comfortable with Romney or Herman Cain, both would do a good job as POTUS. I think Gingrich would do well as POTUS, but he could never win a general election.
I guess I should look a little more into it but it didn't sound like a "Flat Tax" which I'm all for. Cut the IRS down to small fraction and make sure everyone pays their fair share. Everyone gets hit the same based off of what they earn. No loop holes.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:06 PM   #354
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

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I see this upcoming presidential election for the Republicans, the same way it was for the Democrats in 2004. They have an incumbent president that should be easy to beat, but they will put a candidate that the party will "settle for" and lose.
and this is what I'm afraid of. It seemed like the Republican Party would come out swinging to take back the presidency, knock Obama off his seat with disenchanted voters, but now it just feels like the options are limited to which crap is better then the other to throw on the ballot.

It's not like it's the Redskins RB situation where we are all like "no we should use this RB more, or that RB more, or this one should be given a shot." Heck it's more like "Ok if we have to who do we pick? WR TO, WR TJ Housh, etc. etc. etc.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:13 PM   #355
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

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I don't think the Cain sales tax has any affect on the states taxes. Why would it?

Of course it would have an impact. Sales tax in states like Washington which has a 9.8% sales tax would have to be adjusted otherwise every time you go buy anything your tax bill bill be 17.8% which is quite regressive for the poor and the middle class. 22 states have a sales tax of at least 8%....17%+ taxes on sales? You try that shit and you're going to have real nice tea party on your door step real quick!
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:13 PM   #356
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

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I see this upcoming presidential election for the Republicans, the same way it was for the Democrats in 2004. They have an incumbent president that should be easy to beat, but they will put a candidate that the party will "settle for" and lose.
most of my peers feel the same way. Was at a party a couple weeks ago and a guy said the samething. My vote is up for grabs, but I really dont see a taker. Their are several canidates I will not vote for though Newt Dogg, Perry, Bachman, and RS.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:18 PM   #357
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

Meg Whitman and Carly Fiorina, two women that have run Fortune 500 companies, both lost races last November for senator and governor, respectively. Linda McMahon, CEO of WWE, is another example of a person with business acumen, but wasn't able to translate her successful background into winning a national race. I think people tend to overstate the importance of a business background when considering candidates for national office. It's important, but as much as people hate to admit it being a credible and effective politician actually matters more. You don't govern in a vacuum.The American economy isn't like signing checks for GM; compromise really is the name of the game.

That's why Donald Trump is such a non-starter on so many levels. He spent months wasting time requesting to see Obama's birth certificate while the president was busy giving the green light to kill Bin Laden. Made a fool of himself and has been pretty quiet ever since. Trump's also on the record telling China to go eff themselves and he'd take America's share of oil from middle east countries - no questions asked. He just isn't a serious candidate. Point blank.

The best thing that could happen to the Republican party is for some of the Tea Party congressmen to lose their seats next year. If I'm the GOP I'd be less concerned with maintaining a very unpopular majority in Congress and returning to sensible policy that encourages good candidates to step forward and run for office, than making a bunch empty threats about repealing Obamacare, overturning abortion, and shutting down the government. Get on with the business of the country for crying out loud.

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Old 10-13-2011, 04:40 PM   #358
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

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Of course it would have an impact. Sales tax in states like Washington which has a 9.8% sales tax would have to be adjusted otherwise every time you go buy anything your tax bill bill be 17.8% which is quite regressive for the poor and the middle class. 22 states have a sales tax of at least 8%....17%+ taxes on sales? You try that shit and you're going to have real nice tea party on your door step real quick!
I haven't done detailed reading on the 9-9-9, but at first pass this phase (Phase 1) is very similar to FairTax (where Cain is ultimately going), what will happen is with corporations/manufacturers/distributors having a lower corp tax rate (or no corp tax under FairTax), the embedded cost for taxes within a product will be forced out by the market. An item that previously cost $ 100 + say 8% state sales tax = $ 108 for item. Under FairTax, the cost of the item would be reduced by slightly less than the Federal Sales tax, so that $ 100 item would now cost $93 + 8% state sales tax + 9% Federal Sales tax = $ 108.81. I'm not exact on the numbers/percentages but that's the concept.

Keep in mind payroll taxes & medicare taxes (which are highly regressive) and fed income taxes are gone. IRS is greatly reduced, tax loopholes gone, underground economy is now taxed at point of sale. Prebate checks are sent out to all valid SS card holders in US to cover for essentials using current HHS poverty level guidlines.

Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation

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Old 10-13-2011, 04:42 PM   #359
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

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ML, our troops will be home by year's end (knock on wood). So what new wars has Obama started?

Libya, Afghanistan and Yemen. Libya is all on Obama. Yemen is too, but only drones were used. We had a presence in Afghanistan pre-Obama but he sent 30k more troops. While troops are starting to come home (against the advice of generals) it will be at least another year before the entire surge he sent comes back, and after that another 75k will remain.

If Obama had limited his involvement to just Afghanistan he probably would easily be able explain himself as just finishing the job Bush had started and that he didnít want to desert the Afghan people when they needed us most. But he decided that he wanted to get his hands dirty in Libya and Yemen, while ignoring Syria and other middle eastern countries.

Ill admit I have no idea what we are doing in Afghanistan or what 75k will do after we supposedly pull out, or the complications of the Arab Spring and general unrest in the middle east, but unfortunately the same is true for the majority of Americans. But our lack of current foreign policy understanding isnít necessarily because we donít care its more because its extremely difficult to understand. Which makes it extremely difficult to defend while extremely easy to criticize. Imo Obamaís screwed when it comes to his foreign policy.

And youre right his brand isnít gone and he is still adored by many and will get a lot of votes, but there are a lot of people who voted for him and feel completely ripped off. I donít think the republicans can win with anyone but i think they could win with Cain, Romney, Perry or Newt and maybe Paul or Bachman. Although I think that if Romney, and only Romney, gets the nomination Paul could end up running on a third party ticket and give the election to Obama a la Nader or Perot.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:46 PM   #360
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Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

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The best thing that could happen to the Republican party is for some of the Tea Party congressmen to lose their seats next year. If I'm the GOP I'd be less concerned with maintaining a very unpopular majority in Congress and returning to sensible policy that encourages good candidates to step forward and run for office, than making a bunch empty threats about repealing Obamacare, overturning abortion, and shutting down the government. Get on with the business of the country for crying out loud.
I think you may want to leave GOP strategy to someone else. I wouldn't call repealing Obamacare an empty threat depending on what happens next Nov., if the GOP is smart they'll adopt a "state's rights" stance on abortion, and when Ds control the WH and Senate....it takes two to shutdown the gov't.
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