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'Occupy' types

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Old 10-28-2011, 10:08 AM   #136
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Re: 'Occupy' types

Not sure of the credibility of this website but apparently Scott Olsen is not very proud of his service. The press should stop lauding him as an Iraq veteran.

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Old 10-28-2011, 10:12 AM   #137
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Re: 'Occupy' types

I wouldn't attack him personally he did serve two tours in Iraq.
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:21 AM   #138
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Re: 'Occupy' types

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin Walton View Post
That video sucks.
I couldnt tell what was happening and I couldnt tell him from anyone else or who hit what.


Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
That video actually shows that the flash of sparks actually hit a camera man wearing shorts. If you look at the video it shows Scott standing about 8' infront of the white line on the road as a camera man is running by him in shorts. Then it shows ths sparks flying (hitting something) right on the white line and if you look that person is wearing shorts and is right where the camera man was running. Scott had on long pants and was 8' up so that could not have been him. It really does not matter because the video also does a great job covering up the cops telling the crowd repeadly that they were going to use tear gas.
The video doesn't show how the guy(scott) originally got hit, it shows that the cops didn't care whether they were a threat or not and just provoked their own violence without justification. You do realize those tear gas grenades are shot with a launcher right? Try having one of those grenades hit you in the head and tell me if you still remain standing.

At the 1:30 mark. You can see the a few individuals gathering around the down veteran to help him out. NOBODY was making any moves towards the cops. The guy highlights the cop in question and you can see him tossing a flash bang grenade right on top on them while they are trying to help him. You can hear the people saying "Help him"....and what do they do? Throw a flash bang grenade on them. ....lol WE ARE HERE TO SERVE AND PROTECT.

1:59 mark. You can see the officer tossing the grenade into the group of people trying to help the downed individual. If you can't see that, you are making excuses of bad behavior by the cops. Sickening.


Are you two guys even serious? It's plain as day and yet you can't see it?...lol People see what they want to see.
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:28 AM   #139
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Re: 'Occupy' types

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
The video doesn't show how the guy(scott) originally got hit, it shows that the cops didn't care whether they were a threat or not and just provoked their own violence without justification. You do realize those tear gas grenades are shot with a launcher right? Try having one of those grenades hit you in the head and tell me if you still remain standing.

At the 1:30 mark. You can see the a few individuals gathering around the down veteran to help him out. NOBODY was making any moves towards the cops. The guy highlights the cop in question and you can see him tossing a flash bang grenade right on top on them while they are trying to help him. You can hear the people saying "Help him"....and what do they do? Throw a flash bang grenade on them. ....lol WE ARE HERE TO SERVE AND PROTECT.

1:59 mark. You can see the officer tossing the grenade into the group of people trying to help the downed individual. If you can't see that, you are making excuses of bad behavior by the cops. Sickening.


Are you two guys even serious? It's plain as day and yet you can't see it?...lol People see what they want to see.

If someone would have shot the officer who threw the granade at the group, Id be satisfied.
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:30 AM   #140
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Re: 'Occupy' types

And here comes the smear campaign right on queue. The public have a hero or symbol they can get behind, the media will smear his name right into the ground regardless if it's true or not.

/facepalm

Even if the guy hates the marines, does it discredit anything he's done for our country or his time served? Not in the least.
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:32 AM   #141
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Re: 'Occupy' types

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
The video doesn't show how the guy(scott) originally got hit, it shows that the cops didn't care whether they were a threat or not and just provoked their own violence without justification. You do realize those tear gas grenades are shot with a launcher right? Try having one of those grenades hit you in the head and tell me if you still remain standing.

At the 1:30 mark. You can see the a few individuals gathering around the down veteran to help him out. NOBODY was making any moves towards the cops. The guy highlights the cop in question and you can see him tossing a flash bang grenade right on top on them while they are trying to help him. You can hear the people saying "Help him"....and what do they do? Throw a flash bang grenade on them. ....lol WE ARE HERE TO SERVE AND PROTECT.

1:59 mark. You can see the officer tossing the grenade into the group of people trying to help the downed individual. If you can't see that, you are making excuses of bad behavior by the cops. Sickening.


Are you two guys even serious? It's plain as day and yet you can't see it?...lol People see what they want to see.
No doubt the guy was hit by something.
And no, I did not see a police tear gas cannister hit that guy in the head.
I watched the video three times.
Were the cops heavy handed?
It looks like they were.
But without knowing what the cop's direct orders were they may have done exactly what they were told to do...right or wrong.

And for what its worth I do think the USA is turning into a bit of a police state where the cops have too much authority.
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:07 AM   #142
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Re: 'Occupy' types

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
The video doesn't show how the guy(scott) originally got hit, it shows that the cops didn't care whether they were a threat or not and just provoked their own violence without justification. You do realize those tear gas grenades are shot with a launcher right? Try having one of those grenades hit you in the head and tell me if you still remain standing.

At the 1:30 mark. You can see the a few individuals gathering around the down veteran to help him out. NOBODY was making any moves towards the cops. The guy highlights the cop in question and you can see him tossing a flash bang grenade right on top on them while they are trying to help him. You can hear the people saying "Help him"....and what do they do? Throw a flash bang grenade on them. ....lol WE ARE HERE TO SERVE AND PROTECT.

1:59 mark. You can see the officer tossing the grenade into the group of people trying to help the downed individual. If you can't see that, you are making excuses of bad behavior by the cops. Sickening.


Are you two guys even serious? It's plain as day and yet you can't see it?...lol People see what they want to see.
Actually I don't get the Flash Bomb but it came from behind the officer circled not him. You see on object fly over his head and another object come flying in from his right. If that was intentional that person should be punished. Other then that the people were warned with plenty of time to get off the streets and they decided to stay.
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:10 AM   #143
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Re: 'Occupy' types

The cops should have just told the crowd that a bus load of under age skanks just showed up down the road and they would have taken off running. Instead of warning them about the use of tear gas.
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:40 AM   #144
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Re: 'Occupy' types

Im in the middle on this. Im nearly positive the injuries to the Marine came from a tear gas container or other crowd disbursement weapon fired from the police. But the guy should have fled once the police started firing tear gas, instead he just stood there and took on the risk that something could happen. If he had left he wouldn’t have been hit by a canister and perhaps the police wouldn’t have had the need to fire additional canisters. I think police abuse powers but that doesn’t give me the right not to pull over when a cop car flashes his lights, or waive my responsibility to disperse when they fire tear gas at me.
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:44 AM   #145
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Re: 'Occupy' types

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
Actually I don't get the Flash Bomb but it came from behind the officer circled not him. You see on object fly over his head and another object come flying in from his right. If that was intentional that person should be punished. Other then that the people were warned with plenty of time to get off the streets and they decided to stay.

You need your eyes checked. The cop steps back, and throws the flash bang grenade under hand onto the people helping the victim. Here you are again, making excuses when it's plain as day what the guy did. They even freaking highlight it (the cop and the grenade) for you at the 1:30 mark. Not sure how you are missing this over and over again.
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:18 PM   #146
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Re: 'Occupy' types

Again, not making excuses for the cops, but a couple things on that video, and preface with I wasn't there. one, once the guy was down, if a crowd surrounds him that is a threat to the police's safety. NC_Skins, you say no one was trying to get the police, but from the police's view it only takes one instigator hidden in the crowd of people helping Olsen to throw an incendiary device, and a whole bunch of police would be hurt. That crowd gathered fast, and the reaction is to disperse them just as fast. Second, and again, I don't know this, but if the cops did want to help Olsen, they would need to go past that barricade, or the medics would, and a gathered crowd would prevent that, so again, they would need to be dispersed. The grenade actually landed past the crowd, just a bit (not a lot) if you watch the highlighted portion from 1:37 on.

You also can't tell what happened to Olsen originally, but it is odd that everyone else was clearing out that area, while he stood there seemingly unaware of anything.
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:25 PM   #147
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Re: 'Occupy' types

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Again, not making excuses for the cops, but a couple things on that video, and preface with I wasn't there. one, once the guy was down, if a crowd surrounds him that is a threat to the police's safety. NC_Skins, you say no one was trying to get the police, but from the police's view it only takes one instigator hidden in the crowd of people helping Olsen to throw an incendiary device, and a whole bunch of police would be hurt. That crowd gathered fast, and the reaction is to disperse them just as fast. Second, and again, I don't know this, but if the cops did want to help Olsen, they would need to go past that barricade, or the medics would, and a gathered crowd would prevent that, so again, they would need to be dispersed. The grenade actually landed past the crowd, just a bit (not a lot) if you watch the highlighted portion from 1:37 on.

You also can't tell what happened to Olsen originally, but it is odd that everyone else was clearing out that area, while he stood there seemingly unaware of anything.
Yea, he just stood there stock still thru the whole thing.
Kinda weird that a combat veteran would allow himself to be exposed like that.

And I agree that a cop lobbed a flash bang in the group of people trying to help him.
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:15 PM   #148
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Re: 'Occupy' types

I am at work and can't view the clip. With that caveat, here's my two cents:

Given the numbers involved and the fact that protests are all taking place in the heart of very busy cities, I would suggest that the fact that only one protester has been seriously injured is a testament to the restraint of both the police and the protestors. I would suggest that, had the OWS movement tried this stunt in the 50's, 60's or even early 70's, that the level of violence would have been significantly higher. I commend both sides for conducting a mostly civil, mostly peaceful protest that is mostly safe to the property and person of those not choosing to be part of the protest. I do not doubt there will be an investigation into Mr. Scott's injury and, if the police are determined to have acted in an unprofessional manner that caused harm, sanctions will follow (again, crowd control has come a long way since the 60's - as I am not convinced such an investigation would have happened then).

Crowd control by police of large - otherwise peaceful - crowds is an innately tricky, tense affair. Crowds can become mobs quickly and a mob can become a dangerous, powerful force of indiscriminate destruction just as quickly. Thus, what starts as a peaceful protest can quickly turn into an uncontrollable destructive force - have we already forgotten London?

If the police have been heavy handed at times, I would suggest that, in countless confrontations, they have also dispersed disruptive crowds in a manner consistent with the law and with the rights of citizens who either oppose or chose to ignore the protest. As I have said before, non-OWS folks have the right to go about their lives without being subjected to illegal traffic/pedestrian obstructions by the OWS. OWS may have the right to protest, but everyone else has the right to use public property to get to work, school or simply for their own lawful enjoyment of the same. Only a fool would fail to see that, for the police doing so, balancing the rights of these two groups is an extremely tricky and dangerous proposition.

I would hope all agree that some type of police monitoring of any large, organized crowd is necessary - particularly in city settings where close contact with individuals not part of the protest is both imminent and can occur in large volume. Further, in such settings, the congested nature of buildings and people exponentially increase the number of potential "sparks" that could turn the crowd to mob and mob to violence. Obviously, the police themselves also create, by their mere presense, potential conflict and is something that must be considered in determining the size and nature of the police presence.

All of this is simply to say, despite the recent portrayal of the police as a bunch of goose stepping stormtroopers, I believe that they have, in the main, acted with professionalism and have managed a tense situation well. Not perfectly - but well. The protestors have rights but so do the rest of the public and balancing those competing rights on the streets, in the middle of a congested metropolis, day after day is not an easy affair.

Again, in light of all the surrounding circumstances, I commend both sides on the lack of violence, damage and/or injury to protesters, police, property and non-participants.
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:19 PM   #149
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Re: 'Occupy' types

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You need your eyes checked. The cop steps back, and throws the flash bang grenade under hand onto the people helping the victim. Here you are again, making excuses when it's plain as day what the guy did. They even freaking highlight it (the cop and the grenade) for you at the 1:30 mark. Not sure how you are missing this over and over again.
I see it now. Is it just me or does this video stop and start through the first half?
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:26 PM   #150
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Re: 'Occupy' types

JoeRedskin shutting everyone up once again
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