First Amendment Right

saden1 · 02-25-2012, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

In your eyes spitting on someone is worse than characterizing Prophet Mohammed. In a Muslim's eyes, there is nothing worse than poking fun at the prophet and depicting him in a negative stereotype . Right or wrong, the insulted determines what is offensive to them, not the offender. In this case I'm not sure if anyone can claim to be the victim.

Not only is spitting on someone worse than dressing up as Zombie Mo in RedskinRat’s eyes but its considered worse by the law of our country’s eyes.

As far as the law is concerned spitting on someone is Civil Battery and a 3rd degree misdemeanor in most jurisdictions. The state is highly unlikely to spend money perusing such a case and you're not going to get a penny suing for civil damages.

Now the question is if this guy were to dress up as Mohamed in front of a mosque in Michigan during Eid prayer could he be arrested and charged by local law enforcement for something? Incitement? Disturbing the peace, which is a misdemeanor?

Quote:

We value freedom of expression and speech over assault here in ‘Merica. Since you think the Muslim man was justified in his assault on the Atheist do you tolerate Honor Killings by shamed Muslim families? Imagine how horrible it must be to be shamed by your daughter if youre a Muslim family. I mean for Prophet Mo’s sake if a female were to cast shame on her Muslim family obviously the shamed would justify assaulting or killing her right.

Over the years I have become lest tolerant of stupid people and hateful people. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. You want to make fun of Mohammed? Go right ahead, but if I'm on the jury that decides if the guy who assaulted you walks, he's fcking walking.

Quote:

In the Free World violence is only justified in defending our physical selves or others. You should know that.

Violence is justified when it suits us. That is the reality of the world and America/Americans are pretty damn good at it.

firstdown · 02-26-2012, 09:35 AM

Why do we even worry so much about offending Muslim's and keep making excuses for their actions? I'm tired of hearing about their feelings and the stupid excuses for what they do.

RedskinRat · 02-26-2012, 06:15 PM

I'm still not sure why rewarding bad behavior has become 'de rigueur' but I won't be doing it.

Conversely I enjoy being called on my bad behavior. For example: This weekend we were at the Elrod House in Palm Springs, waiting in line for the shuttle bus to load up. The driver says "One seat left, do we have a single?" and this dude steps up, full-on Disco Stu type, hipster clothing at 50 with a very obvious rug, says "I'm single!" to which I reply "Wearing that wig, I'm not surprised".

My wife, who is very polite and civilized, elbowed me and told me to stop being an attention seaker but the others in my party and some people around me found it amusing.

If he'd have said something I'd have apologized, obliquely, and attempted to insult him further, but I am a collossal arse when I'm around crowds of people. I don't generally like people much.

mlmpetert · 02-27-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

As far as the law is concerned spitting on someone is Civil Battery and a 3rd degree misdemeanor in most jurisdictions. The state is highly unlikely to spend money perusing such a case and you're not going to get a penny suing for civil damages.

Now the question is if this guy were to dress up as Mohamed in front of a mosque in Michigan during Eid prayer could he be arrested and charged by local law enforcement for something? Incitement? Disturbing the peace, which is a misdemeanor?

Over the years I have become lest tolerant of stupid people and hateful people. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. You want to make fun of Mohammed? Go right ahead, but if I'm on the jury that decides if the guy who assaulted you walks, he's fcking walking.

Violence is justified when it suits us. That is the reality of the world and America/Americans are pretty damn good at it.

Do you have anything to back up your claim that spitting on a person amounts to a 3rd degree misdemeanor in most jurisdictions? And states are "highly unlikely" to pursue charges against people who spit on others? You are just making those things up. Spitting on someone is a serious crime, and can invoke a serious reaction from the victim. You even said yourself that if someone spit on you, you would likely "gun them down".

Dressing up as Mo during a Eid prayer outside of a mosque in a heavily populated Muslim community is entirely different then dressing up as Mo during a halloween parade. If someone wants to satire Mo by targeting and intentionally seeking out a group of people to incite or inflame then they need to file for a protest permit, otherwise youre right they would be inciting a rioting or disturbing the peace. But they should be allowed to express themselves, regardless of their beliefs.

Newton's thrid law of motion doenst apply to self control.

Unfortunately I have jury duty next week, and you know what ill do if presented with a similar case? Follow the instructions given to me. I certainly wont make up my own justice rules to apply like you would.

Do you personally think people should not be allowed to satire the Prophet Mohamed? Or that if someone does they deserve violence against them?

firstdown · 02-27-2012, 11:03 AM

If this was a person crapping on the bible the left would call it art and provide federal funding for the arts.

RedskinRat · 02-27-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Do you personally think people should not be allowed to satire the Prophet Mohamed? Or that if someone does they deserve violence against them?

Anything that can't stand up to humor isn't worthy of being revered, but if anyone can think of an exception I'd be interested to hear it.

firstdown · 02-27-2012, 12:25 PM

So Saden are you saying if I see someone burning the American flag under the law I can kick their ass?

saden1 · 02-27-2012, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

So Saden are you saying if I see someone burning the American flag under the law I can kick their ass?

I don't condone what that muslim guy did and I don't condone what that atheist did either. All I am saying is there is a limit to free speech and for me that limit is crossing the decency threshold. If someone is protesting US policy and uses the burning of the US flag to symbolize their protest, that's okay. If someone is burning the flag at Arlington Memorial on Veterans day, I would hope you would kick their ass.

Ask yourself "which is worse, burning the US flag or burning the Bible and desecrating a statue of Jesus?" The Bible is the word of God and there is nothing higher than that. Not even the flag. If you feel that strongly about the flag though irrespective of the situation at hand, please feel free to kick some ass. Of course, if I am on the jury your threshold of getting away with it will depend on the the circumstance of it.

saden1 · 02-27-2012, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Do you have anything to back up your claim that spitting on a person amounts to a 3rd degree misdemeanor in most jurisdictions? And states are "highly unlikely" to pursue charges against people who spit on others? You are just making those things up. Spitting on someone is a serious crime, and can invoke a serious reaction from the victim. You even said yourself that if someone spit on you, you would likely "gun them down".

Dressing up as Mo during a Eid prayer outside of a mosque in a heavily populated Muslim community is entirely different then dressing up as Mo during a halloween parade. If someone wants to satire Mo by targeting and intentionally seeking out a group of people to incite or inflame then they need to file for a protest permit, otherwise youre right they would be inciting a rioting or disturbing the peace. But they should be allowed to express themselves, regardless of their beliefs.

Newton's thrid law of motion doenst apply to self control.

Unfortunately I have jury duty next week, and you know what ill do if presented with a similar case? Follow the instructions given to me. I certainly wont make up my own justice rules to apply like you would.

Do you personally think people should not be allowed to satire the Prophet Mohamed? Or that if someone does they deserve violence against them?

My standard and the state's standards are not the same, I will fck you up...I do have some info to back that up. In the state of VA spitting on someone is 1st degree misdemeanor but unless you have a record it will be worked down to 3rd degree misdemeanor (no jail time unless you spat on an officer of the law or a state employee). Similarly, in the state of WA it's a 4th degree misdemeanor (equivalent to VA's 1st degree misdemeanor except the max jail time is 90 days) but what you get charged with is based on the assessment of the arresting officer.

These charges are not serious. If you happen to be so unfortunate as to get a hard ass district/state attorney you could face class 1 misdemeanor but then again even a junior attorney can get these charges knocked down.

Yeah, no serves jail time for spitting...that's common knowledge. State prosecution funds and jails are reserved for more serious crimes and spitting aint one of them.

NC_Skins · 02-28-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

Conflict of interest? So what you're saying is you can't be a christian judge and rule on a matter between a christian and a Muslim due to conflict of interest?

Do you understand what conflict of interest means?

Yes, I do know what conflict of interest means and your point is valid in regards to your example. What is evident is that he allowed his bias to dismiss this case.

RedskinRat · 02-28-2012, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Yes, I do know what conflict of interest means and your point is valid in regards to your example. What is evident is is that he allowed his bias to dismiss this case.

The judge is a methodist or mormon (apparently) or some other superstitious group and so his bias as a theist allowed him to override common sense.

The religiously inclined tend to stick together when faced with Atheists, that's been my experience.

They hate me far more than they hate each other, which I appreciate.

saden1 · 02-28-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Yes, I do know what conflict of interest means and your point is valid in regards to your example. What is evident is that he allowed his bias to dismiss this case.

What is his bias and is it the same as his judgment?

NC_Skins · 02-28-2012, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

What is his bias and is it the same as his judgment?

Well, how is it he completely ignored the officer's testimony in his decision? No explanation to why his testimony was ignored?

firstdown · 02-28-2012, 04:52 PM

Here's My First Amendment Right!!

F^ck Dallas!!!

saden1 · 02-28-2012, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

Here's My First Amendment Right!!

F^ck Dallas!!!

Yes, Fck the Cowboys...just make sure this doesn't happen to you when you say that while at a bar in Texas/Oklahoma.

Texas Football Fan Nearly Castrated in Bar Fight in Oklahoma Bar | Fox News

02-26-2012, 09:35 AM	#32
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 49 Posts: 15,182	Re: First Amendment Right Why do we even worry so much about offending Muslim's and keep making excuses for their actions? I'm tired of hearing about their feelings and the stupid excuses for what they do.

02-26-2012, 06:15 PM	#33
RedskinRat Born a Rocker,Die a Rocker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: I'm in LA, trick! Posts: 6,781	Re: First Amendment Right I'm still not sure why rewarding bad behavior has become 'de rigueur' but I won't be doing it. Conversely I enjoy being called on my bad behavior. For example: This weekend we were at the Elrod House in Palm Springs, waiting in line for the shuttle bus to load up. The driver says "One seat left, do we have a single?" and this dude steps up, full-on Disco Stu type, hipster clothing at 50 with a very obvious rug, says "I'm single!" to which I reply "Wearing that wig, I'm not surprised". My wife, who is very polite and civilized, elbowed me and told me to stop being an attention seaker but the others in my party and some people around me found it amusing. If he'd have said something I'd have apologized, obliquely, and attempted to insult him further, but I am a collossal arse when I'm around crowds of people. I don't generally like people much.

02-27-2012, 11:03 AM	#35
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 49 Posts: 15,182	Re: First Amendment Right If this was a person crapping on the bible the left would call it art and provide federal funding for the arts.

02-27-2012, 12:25 PM	#37
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 49 Posts: 15,182	Re: First Amendment Right So Saden are you saying if I see someone burning the American flag under the law I can kick their ass?

02-28-2012, 04:52 PM	#44
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 49 Posts: 15,182	Re: First Amendment Right Here's My First Amendment Right!! F^ck Dallas!!!

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First Amendment Right

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