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Trayvon Martin Case

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Old 03-28-2012, 09:25 PM   #181
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

beat me rave and it seems pretty odd that he has nothing wrong w him
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:27 PM   #182
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by skinsfaninok View Post
beat me rave and it seems pretty odd that he has nothing wrong w him
He seems pretty... Not disheveled... Well, for a guy that allegedly just got beat down by a 17 year old.
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:29 PM   #183
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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He seems pretty... Not disheveled... Well, for a guy that allegedly just got beat down by a 17 year old.
sorry but this dudes story isn't really believable IMO, and he looks like he's in pretty damn good shape to me.
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:39 PM   #184
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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sorry but this dudes story isn't really believable IMO, and he looks like he's in pretty damn good shape to me.
5 years since the mug shot that's been circulating. Look's like the dude's been hitting the gym.

I'm not going to say Zimmerman over powered Martin, but I bet considering Zimmerman isn't the pudgy, out of shape dude in the circulating picture, and Martin was already in shape, I can only imagine it had to have been a hell of a fight. (If that actually happened)
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:43 PM   #185
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

I think Zimmerman is either innocent and it was self defense or one hell of a sociopath and a liar (since those already go hand in hand) and has a good portion of America fooled.
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:48 PM   #186
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by DynamiteRave View Post
5 years since the mug shot that's been circulating. Look's like the dude's been hitting the gym.

I'm not going to say Zimmerman over powered Martin, but I bet considering Zimmerman isn't the pudgy, out of shape dude in the circulating picture, and Martin was already in shape, I can only imagine it had to have been a hell of a fight. (If that actually happened)

So where were all the people that live in this neighborhood while this so called Fight was going down? Where I grew up fights were a common thing and I can tell u now that people were always outside while it was going down.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:00 PM   #187
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by DynamiteRave View Post
I think Zimmerman is either innocent and it was self defense or one hell of a sociopath and a liar (since those already go hand in hand) and has a good portion of America fooled.
Fair assessment in my opinion. And yeah, that video shows a pretty "not beaten" guy to me. His lawyer said his nose was broken, but it doesn't look like it to me. No bruising or swelling that would be associated with that kind of injury.

At the same time, one eye witness - the only one seeing any part of the altercation - says Martin was beating Zimmerman's head into the ground. Conflicting evidence all around. <blech>
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:27 PM   #188
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Its tough to make out the face even though it doesnt look hurt, but because of a pretty recent hair cut the back of the head is pretty clear, no injury what so ever.

You would expect to see some type of first aid administered to the head from the description of his supposed wounds.

Im just not buying what this guy is selling, think he's lying and this supposed attack wasnt much of anything but trying to CYA tall tale after-the-fact
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:49 PM   #189
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Been thinking over the Florida immunity law (the one saying, if you assert self-defense, you can't be arrested without proof that the "self-defense" defense is inapplicable) and why I find it morally bothersome. It appears to change the claim of "self-defense" from an affirmative defense to a presumptive defense and, in doing so, lessens the value of life.

As an affirmative defense, "self-defense" is something I have to prove in order to be innocent of murder. If I fail to prove my actions satisfied the elements of self-defense, my defense fails and I may be liable for first or second degree murder. As such, I better be damn sure of myself before resorting to deadly force in self-defense. Simply put, as an affirmative defense, the philosophical underpinning of the "self-defense" claim is that, if you kill someone, the presumption is you are wrong to do so.

The presumption that it is wrong to kill someone is eliminated, however, when the claim of "self-defense" is converted into a presumptive defense as it appears to be in Florida. As a presumptive defense, I don't need to prove I acted in self-defense, I just need to assert that I was doing so. Once asserted, it becomes the State's burden to find enough evidence to prove I that I was not acting in self-defense. As such, when (like here) the evidence is just too conflicting to say one way or another with any reasonable degree of certainty, the State will almost always fail to overcome the presumption. As a result, the possibility that a person wrongly lost their life will never even make it to a jury.

Essentially, as a presumptive defense, the philosophical underpinning of the "self-defense" claim is that killing someone is not assumed to be wrong. Rather, Floridians have said that the right to defend your person is primary even if sometimes innocent people get killed. I am pretty sure I have a problem with that.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:49 PM   #190
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quick primer on the degrees of murder - First degree murder is traditional murder - felony murder & pre-meditated murder. Second degree murder is simply Murder 1 with an imperfect defense (such as asserting self defense with deadly force when you had no right to use it) or, alternatively, death caused by gross negligence and reckless disregard for others (think firing a gun into a crowded room - you may not have intended to kill anyone, but you damn well should have known you were likely to do so). Manslaughter is simply the negligent/accidental killing of another.

Generally, the distingushing feature between second degree murder and manslaughter is that, in Murder 2, you admit to the intentional killing of another but wrongly assert you had the right to do so. In manslaughter, however, you deny that you intended to kill the person and assert it was an accident. In this case, Zimmerman has said "I killed him in self-defense." Meaning that he intended to kill Martin and that the death was not accidental. As a result, it would appear to me that the State is stuck with 2nd degree murder or nothing.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:51 PM   #191
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
Its tough to make out the face even though it doesnt look hurt, but because of a pretty recent hair cut the back of the head is pretty clear, no injury what so ever.

You would expect to see some type of first aid administered to the head from the description of his supposed wounds.

Im just not buying what this guy is selling, think he's lying and this supposed attack wasnt much of anything but trying to CYA tall tale after-the-fact
Is the homeowner who witnessed Martin beating Zimmerman also lying?
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:22 PM   #192
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Is the homeowner who witnessed Martin beating Zimmerman also lying?
Could've mixed the 2 up? How far was the homeowner from the incident? Was it practically on their doorstep or were they like 5 or 6 houses down? Could make a significant difference and mistaken identity. Around 7pm and raining, so it was probably somewhat dark.

Possibly? I'm sure odder witness mistakes have happened...
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:57 PM   #193
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

As I understand it, the fight was on his front yard and he was very clear that guy A was on top of and beating guy B. He looked away/went for phone, heard a gunshot and then saw "the guy who had been on top" lying on the ground.

Quote:
A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
Trayvon Martin shot and killed in neighborhood altercation

Quote:
The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

Sounds like he was pretty sure of what he saw and was close enough to speak to the two while they were fighting.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:25 AM   #194
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Is the homeowner who witnessed Martin beating Zimmerman also lying?
In your line of work, whats more important physical evidence vs. witness statement? I think the physical evidence. Lets be honest, that video evidence directly after the fight shows no signs of a fight. No bruising or blood to the face, back of the head, no ripped clothing, doesnt look physically exhasted, etc. A broken nose or gash to the back of the head should be noticable.

Im calling bullsh*t on Zimmy. Going to ground and rolling around is alot different from some a child on top of a grown medium to large man physically beating him. Alot different.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:48 AM   #195
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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I'll have to say I keep going back and forth on this as new stuff comes out. The past few days it seemed Zim acted in self defense and now after seeing the video I question that. I do wonder about the witness and what they said they saw. I know in my business the out side witness hold more ground then the the people involved.
Yeah I agree. I was against Zimmerman at first, then I thought Zimmerman had a good case, and now there's video that could possibly prove Zimmerman was lying. I haven't seen the video but if it's true and he didn't suffer any injuries than I don't know what to believe. I'm just going to wait until all the facts come out.
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