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Trayvon Martin Case

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Old 03-29-2012, 05:13 PM   #211
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I have a really really hard time justifying self-defense on the part of Zimmerman when he trailed him despite being told to stop following him. I have a hard time believing there exists a neighborhood watchman that doesn't know the streets in his own neighborhood. I have an even harder time believing getting out of your car to look at a street sign. Most of all I have a really hard time believing the down right disregard for what self-defense means in this country by so many.

It is irrelevant whether Trayvon was on top beating him or below getting beat up, or who was screaming for help. What is truly relevant is that you can apparently follow someone and shoot them and then claim self-defense.

It's very difficult to not wish you all or your children to suffer the same fate as Trayvon and experience Zimmermanian self-defense first hand.
Those are definitely very good points. The fact that Zimmerman's face didnt look red or anything either makes me question how just how assaulted he was.

But i havent seen/heard anything that makes me think Zimmerman kept following Martin after it was suggested to stop. Once the dispatcher told him to stop it looks like he stopped.

I think for me its did Zimmerman retreat, and if so did Martin then go towards Zimmerman and pick a fight? If so i think Zimmerman was justified to shoot Martin if during the fight he became reasonably fearful of being killed. If someone smashed my head into the pavement or reached for my gun i would be fearful of my life.

While i dont approve of the conditions that Zimmerman used to "stalk" Martin, i really just dont think that of everything we know of what Zimmerman did, Martin never had the right to assult him or should have felt reasonable provoked to assault him (espicially if Zimmerman did indeed turn around or retreated).
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Old 03-29-2012, 05:31 PM   #212
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
It's very difficult to not wish you all or your children to suffer the same fate as Trayvon and experience Zimmermanian self-defense first hand.
I don't need to suffer it to understand the tragedy and, if it is difficult for you to accept that people can know that and still try to live under the rule of law without wishing tragedy upon them, I simply don't have a retort for that kind of evil desire. Regardless of anyone's opinion in this matter, I hope they are never visited by such tragedy.

You have a hard time believing his story. You are not alone. You think wrong was done. Again, you are not alone.
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Old 03-29-2012, 06:00 PM   #213
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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I don't need to suffer it to understand the tragedy and, if it is difficult for you to accept that people can know that and still try to live under the rule of law without wishing tragedy upon them, I simply don't have a retort for that kind of evil desire. Regardless of anyone's opinion in this matter, I hope they are never visited by such tragedy.

You have a hard time believing his story. You are not alone. You think wrong was done. Again, you are not alone.
I don't have hard time believing Zimmerman, I have a hard time believing a murderous assailant that perpetuated the confrontation can reasonably claim self-defense in this country. Such claim is beyond preposterous and indefensible from any angle. It's murder and if anyone has grounds to justify their actions based on Florida's Stand Your Ground law it's Trayvon.

I mean, this Zimmerman character once called police to report "a suspicious black male, 7-9 years old, skinny build." That's not normal and here we are assuming that he's normal, justified, and acted in self-defense when in fact the only person that can reasonably claim self-defense is Trayvon.

Last edited by saden1; 03-29-2012 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:41 PM   #214
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Okay, so why is it inflammatory if a white person shoots a black teenager under suspicious circumstances but not inflammatory if a Hispanic individual shoots a black teenager under suspicious circumstances? Explain to me why this is not base hypocracy or demagougery.

It's between two minorities? So minorities can shoot each other and society won't bring out the pitchforks, only white folks have to answer to the mob? This doesn't strike you as wrong? A young man is dead - If unjustified, shouldn't outrage flow regardless of who shot him or the colors involved?
Unfortunately yes . No different than a "pretty " white girl is missing or feared dead , the media goes crazy and it is a national story . However it seems like we never hear about Black or latino girls missing . If Zimmerman were black , we would have never heard about it . Here is a violent crime where some black teens set a white kid on fire , how many people have heard this story ? Teens set kid on fire for being 'white boy' - New York Daily News
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:27 PM   #215
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It is somewhat true black on black crime never gets reported and imo if Martin was white Zimmerman would have not followed him and started shit.. it's a sad world sometimes and racism is never going to go away .
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:31 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I don't have hard time believing Zimmerman, I have a hard time believing a murderous assailant that perpetuated the confrontation can reasonably claim self-defense in this country. Such claim is beyond preposterous and indefensible from any angle. It's murder and if anyone has grounds to justify their actions based on Florida's Stand Your Ground law it's Trayvon.

I mean, this Zimmerman character once called police to report "a suspicious black male, 7-9 years old, skinny build." That's not normal and here we are assuming that he's normal, justified, and acted in self-defense when in fact the only person that can reasonably claim self-defense is Trayvon.
He's racist sorry but imo he doesn't like black people and he Martin fitted the profile. And yes hispanics can be racist towards anyone just like whites and blacks and native Americans can be
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:53 PM   #217
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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He's racist sorry but imo he doesn't like black people and he Martin fitted the profile. And yes hispanics can be racist towards anyone just like whites and blacks and native Americans can be
But what about him being a registered democrat and tutoring black kids for free? Not saying I disagree, but I'm sure someone will probably bring it up.

I can't say for sure about the racist angle, but he definitely profiled Martin. I think Zimmerman could be defined as at least having sociopathic qualities. What do you think?

This is the DSM-IV's definition of of sociopathy:

A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:

failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;

deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;

impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;

irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;

reckless disregard for safety of self or others;

consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain
consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;

lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having
hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

B) The individual is at least age 18 years.
C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:44 AM   #218
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case



Here's additional footage. Longer than the one in the news report.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:57 AM   #219
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Source: Sanford police chief, state attorney made Zimmerman 'no charge' call in person

Well that seems odd.

Also didn't know Zimmerman's father was a retired supreme court judge.. In Virginia.

Eh...
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:35 AM   #220
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Rocking my hoodie at work today...seeing a couple smiles and a couple frowns. ill deal with the frowns later
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:35 AM   #221
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

If we're going to level allegations of racism I'd like to volunteer this chap as a bigot and a racist:

Two young white men are murdered, POTUS doesn't respond.

Apparently he can't imagine these boys being his sons.
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:25 PM   #222
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Classic case of racial profiling. It seems "Stand Your Ground" should apply to Trayvon Martin, not George Zimmerman.

D.C. had a strong showing at the Trayvon rally last weekend.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:09 PM   #223
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Well when your having a crime problem in your neighborhood and the crime has been done buy young black males it becomes real easy to profile. Right or wrong that's just human nature.
Its one thing to profile and call the cops or profile and keep an eye on. Profiling while carrying a weapon on you and then confronting makes it seem like you're looking for trouble.

Dude was trying too hard to be a hero.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:30 PM   #224
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Classic case of racial profiling. It seems "Stand Your Ground" should apply to Trayvon Martin, not George Zimmerman.

D.C. had a strong showing at the Trayvon rally last weekend.
Assuming Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation, it certainly would.

I am glad there are some many people gifted with retroactive telepathy and can clear up, beyond any reasonable doubt, what Zimmerman's thought processes were as this confrontation unfolded. ... I was just guessing about it.

Prove Zimmerman wouldn't have done the same thing to a tattoed, white (hispanic, asian blah blah blah) kid dressed and acting in the same manner as Martin and I'll buy the profiling argument as a factual conclusion that can be stated with certainty. Otherwise everyone is just speculating about Zimmerman's state of mind.

Again, so my position is clear, although legally allowed to do so, Zimmerman was wrong to be toting a gun around while on a Neighbor Watch patrol. He exercised bad judgment in following when the dispatcher said it was unneeded. The law as written is letting a potential illegal and unjust action go unpunished. ... and most importantly, even if he started the physical altercation, Martin's death is a tragic event and the law's failure to provide for a satisfactory and just result compounds the tragedy.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:51 PM   #225
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I mean, this Zimmerman character once called police to report "a suspicious black male, 7-9 years old, skinny build." That's not normal and here we are assuming that he's normal, justified, and acted in self-defense when in fact the only person that can reasonably claim self-defense is Trayvon.
Ive reported suspicious persons once before in my life. A old girlfriend had about 5 or so homeless people set up camp in an alley directly behind her house. She lived in a kind of bad section of Richmond, but this was pretty unusually even for this neighborhood. Several girls lived in the house and they were all pretty terrified by the idea of homeless people creeping around their house and where the park their cars so I called the non-emergency police number to report the issue for the girls.

When I spoke to the dispatcher I told them that there was about 5 homeless people setting up camp in the alley behind 311 S. Laurel St. The person asked me what they looked like, I said “like your typical indigent persons”. No other fitting description crossed my mind at the time, as its pretty easy to identify a 5 band homeless camp in an alley. But they said something like no we need a description of their race, sex and build. I told the dispatcher that there was 1 female, and about 4 males, everyone was white except for one black guy, and that they were all average build.

My point is the police want to know the race of people you call to report for whatever reason. Zimmerman likely knew this considering the 40+ calls he made to police over the last year. It just so happens race is one of the most physically descriptive unchangeable characteristics a person posses, and police find it particularly helpful in identifying people.

And honestly you’ve never seen a 7-9 year old acting “suspicious”. If I see a young kid that’s not playing, not riding a bike, that’s just wondering around by himself/herself, or out at night im going to be concerned. And its pretty easy to tell when little kids are up to no good, as most have no skills hiding it.

If I see a little kid ive never seen before doing something “suspicious” around a neighbor’s property, with no other little kids or parents in sight, im probably gonna make my presence known or call the police. And although saying a little kid acting suspicious or a group of 5 homeless people in an alley is the only identifier guys like me and you need to pinpoint the person(s) in questions, guess what the police are going to ask no matter what the circumstance….. race, sex and build.

Ill let you guys know im not Black. Maybe its impossible for me to understand why there are people saying this is a clear case of racial profiling. Is it just a gut feeling some of us have about this guy? Or is there something im just completely missing? If someone thinks someone of a different race is acting suspicious, is it always racial profiling in this country?

Rush to judgment in Trayvon Martin case - CNN.com
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