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Trayvon Martin Case

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Old 03-30-2012, 05:32 PM   #241
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
If I see you on the street and start to run after you, are you allowed to punch me when I get close enough to you?

Did he tell his girl friend the guy had a gun? Honestly, I was not aware of that. I would agree that changes things if the gun came into play before the fight. About to leave work, but I'll think about that. If Zimmerman was chasing Martin brandishing or obviously showing the gun, that is a different story altogether.

Let me ask you, if the events transpired as Zimmerman said. He was walking away, an unprovoked Martin assaulted him, broke his nose and bashed Zimmerman's head into the cement, did Zimmerman have the right to use deadly force?
Your example isn't a good one. Zimmerman followed Martin in a vehicle, got out against the orders of the 911 operator, and approached Trayvon Martin. His actions precipitated the ensuing the events. Had Zimmerman been an officer of the law, properly identified himself, then that's a different story. But he made up his made that Trayvon Martin was up to something and decided to take matters into his own hands. That much is very clear from the 911 audio.

Where we disagree is this, you're assuming because George Zimmerman suffered in a physical altercation, he's justified in pulling out his weapon. That is not stand your ground, sir. Even if George Zimmerman got his ass beat, which he didn't, that doesn't give him the legal grounds to pull his firearm and shoot an innocent teen in cold blood.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:39 PM   #242
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Jeb Bush: 'Stand Your Ground' Doesn't Apply in Trayvon Case
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:00 PM   #243
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
the instigator? I can follow you all I want on a public street saden. I can run after you if you run away. I can stare at you. I can call you names. I can say your stupid as I run in the same direction as you. What I cannot do, is touch or threaten you.

I think the crux of it is we are disagreeing on what "threaten" means. You think the act of "chasing" is the threat. Okay. I get that. If an unfamiliar kid I think is acting "suspiciously" in my neighborhood sees me watching him and starts to run away, am I "threatening" him if I chase him while I call 911? Can he turn and assault me?
No, this is not a "OK, I get that" type of situation. It's "if an adult was following your little girl that adult is a threat." Following someone can only result in two things:

a) confrontation which is a hostile or argumentative meeting or situation between opposing parties.

b) one individual takes flight out of fear for their safety.


The act of following someone you don't know is a threatening act.
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:09 PM   #244
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
Your example isn't a good one. Zimmerman followed Martin in a vehicle, got out against the orders of the 911 operator, and approached Trayvon Martin. His actions precipitated the ensuing the events. Had Zimmerman been an officer of the law, properly identified himself, then that's a different story. But he made up his made that Trayvon Martin was up to something and decided to take matters into his own hands. That much is very clear from the 911 audio.

Where we disagree is this, you're assuming because George Zimmerman suffered in a physical altercation, he's justified in pulling out his weapon. That is not stand your ground, sir. Even if George Zimmerman got his ass beat, which he didn't, that doesn't give him the legal grounds to pull his firearm and shoot an innocent teen in cold blood.
Okay. I do see your point and I do need to rethink some of the assumptions I have been making because you and saden have convinced me I have got some of my facts wrong. I promise to do so and be back with my thoughts. Just walked in door, though, and must now wrestle with small children.
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:10 PM   #245
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
No, this is not a "OK, I get that" type of situation. It's "if an adult was following your little girl that adult is a threat." Following someone can only result in two things:

a) confrontation which is a hostile or argumentative meeting or situation between opposing parties.

b) one individual takes flight out of fear for their safety.


The act of following someone you don't know is a threatening act.
The "OK, I get that" was more of the epiphany - "ohhhhh, I see" kind of "getting that".
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:28 PM   #246
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
This kid did nothing wrong and apparently you assholes think it's OK to shoot kids because they look suspicious or wear a hoddie and stand up to grown men stalking them.


Yo, close this thread before these morons say more stupid shit that makes no sense.
This post is like reading You Tube comments.
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:39 PM   #247
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This post is like reading You Tube comments.
Well in all fairness he's kinda right..
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:45 PM   #248
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by DynamiteRave View Post
But what about him being a registered democrat and tutoring black kids for free? Not saying I disagree, but I'm sure someone will probably bring it up.

I can't say for sure about the racist angle, but he definitely profiled Martin. I think Zimmerman could be defined as at least having sociopathic qualities. What do you think?

This is the DSM-IV's definition of of sociopathy:

A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:

failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;

deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;

impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;

irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;

reckless disregard for safety of self or others;

consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain
consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;

lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having
hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

B) The individual is at least age 18 years.
C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.
Awesome post Dynamite
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:49 PM   #249
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by skinsfaninok View Post
It is somewhat true black on black crime never gets reported and imo if Martin was white Zimmerman would have not followed him and started shit.. it's a sad world sometimes and racism is never going to go away .
I agree with you , and it is VERY SAD in 2012 ( or as early as 1970 ) , that soo many people are ,mean, stupid , ect . I don't think Zimmerman should have gone near the kid , he should have just called the local police , two lives are possibly over and the poor parents will suffer for ever .
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:46 PM   #250
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by budw38 View Post
I agree with you , and it is VERY SAD in 2012 ( or as early as 1970 ) , that soo many people are ,mean, stupid , ect . I don't think Zimmerman should have gone near the kid , he should have just called the local police , two lives are possibly over and the poor parents will suffer for ever .
They'll be sad I'm sure but they are in line to make lots of money. They didn't copyright all that stuff and annouce they were going to sell DVD's and CD's, hats and shirts, etc... just for fun.

Consider that people are probably going to pay millions for the chance to interview the parents on talk shows, there could be a movie or book deal. The parents most certainly would stand to profit immensley from the whole ordeal. They must be thinking as much or else they wouldn't have the wheels already rolling on merchandise, etc...
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:38 PM   #251
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by SolidSnake84 View Post
They'll be sad I'm sure but they are in line to make lots of money. They didn't copyright all that stuff and annouce they were going to sell DVD's and CD's, hats and shirts, etc... just for fun.

Consider that people are probably going to pay millions for the chance to interview the parents on talk shows, there could be a movie or book deal. The parents most certainly would stand to profit immensley from the whole ordeal. They must be thinking as much or else they wouldn't have the wheels already rolling on merchandise, etc...
this is what this whole thing is about assumptions. could they be using this to make a profit off their sons death, sure. could they be trying to make money to pay for lawyer fees, sure. the thing is none of use know what they are thinking we are all just making assumptions. at the end of the day it's human nature to do so, but until we can remove all hearsay and look at the case from a non biased point of view, all we are doing is making assumptions.

as it was said in a cinematic masterpiece, "assumption is the mother of all f ups"

and btw i doubt they will be paid millions for their interviews but they will probably be paid a decent amount. would you be as upset if zimmerman decides to write a book in the future?
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:22 PM   #252
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Former co-worker: Zimmerman lost security guard job after he ‘snapped’ | The Raw Story


Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman 911 call analysis: Two forensic experts say it's not George Zimmerman crying out for help - Orlando Sentinel
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:48 PM   #253
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

This leads back to my sociopath argument.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:52 PM   #254
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

There are a few things that are pretty clear to me: George Zimmerman is lying, the Sanford PD is lying to cover their asses, and if the tables were turned, had Trayvon shot Zimmerman under the exact same circumstances, there's no question in my mind that: a) We would not be having this conversation and b) Trayvon would have been arrested on the spot. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, go straight to jail.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:48 PM   #255
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
There are a few things that are pretty clear to me: George Zimmerman is lying, the Sanford PD is lying to cover their asses, and if the tables were turned, had Trayvon shot Zimmerman under the exact same circumstances, there's no question in my mind that: a) We would not be having this conversation and b) Trayvon would have been arrested on the spot. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, go straight to jail.
I agree. I just wonder why PD would try to cover it up in the first place. Its not like Zimmerman was a pillar of the community or something, where they didn't want him/the city to get bad press.

I just don't see what the PD was trying to achieve by completely screwing the entire situation.
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