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Trayvon Martin Case

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Old 04-02-2012, 03:08 PM   #271
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

JoeRedskin, to date there are no witness that actually saw the incident from start to end. So it boils down to Zimmerman's word against Trayvon Martin's. And Trayvon Martin is dead.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:09 PM   #272
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Also, I believe Zimmerman is lying when he said that Martin waylaid him as Zimmerman was returning to his car. To me, that is just as ridiculous as the original assertions that Zimmerman shot Martin in cold blood.

@12th - yes, I believe the Sanford PD took Zimmerman at his word that it was self-defense, found no one to contradict it and, instead, found witnesses saying that Martin was beating Zimmerman. In light of Florida's self-defense immunity-from-arrest law, it is not unreasonable for them to have acted in this fashion.

At the same time, the officer at the scene recommended that Zimmerman be arrested for manslaughter but was overruled by the State's Attorney.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:16 PM   #273
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Yeah, I thought it was strange that the State's Attorney was even present to begin with and overturned the officer at the scene without collecting any facts, no DNA, no nothing. Just overturned it. Interesting.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:17 PM   #274
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
JoeRedskin, to date there are no witness that actually saw the incident from start to end. So it boils down to Zimmerman's word against Trayvon Martin's. And Trayvon Martin is dead.
Yes. No. Sorta. Agreed we have a critical gap. At the same time, we know there was a verbal confrontation based on the statement of the girlfriend. We know there was some type of physical altercation based on the eye witnesses.

At the least, Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter based on the 911 call and the girlfriend's statements and the "mutual combat" doctrine. However, it is the State's duty to prove murder so, lacking something more than what I have seen out there, I can't see them proving it at this point.

It will not be the first time a murderer has walked for lack of a witness. It happens in Baltimore all the time and usually the alleged murderer has a much more sordid history than Zimmerman.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:24 PM   #275
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Yeah, I thought it was strange that the State's Attorney was even present to begin with and overturned the officer at the scene without collecting any facts, no DNA, no nothing. Just overturned it. Interesting.
Again, yes, no, sorta - police recommendations get overturned all the time. Hell, in Baltimore for a while, it was a HUGE bone of contention between the PD and State's Attorney. I would not be surprised if the SA took one look at this and said - this could be a problem, let's not rush into it. Again, I blame Florida's self-defense, immunity-from-arrest law. Rather than the "Stand-your-ground" law, this is the law that needs changing in Florida.

Seriously, the amount of bad judgment by the various actors in this case is amaziing - from Zimmerman, to the police, to the media, etc. it's just stunning.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:42 PM   #276
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

You live in Balitmore? I was up there for St. Paddy's. Good times.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:53 PM   #277
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Yup - been here since 1987.
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:53 PM   #278
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Yup - been here since 1987.
Get over to Mothers at all?
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:55 PM   #279
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Again, yes, no, sorta - police recommendations get overturned all the time. Hell, in Baltimore for a while, it was a HUGE bone of contention between the PD and State's Attorney. I would not be surprised if the SA took one look at this and said - this could be a problem, let's not rush into it. Again, I blame Florida's self-defense, immunity-from-arrest law. Rather than the "Stand-your-ground" law, this is the law that needs changing in Florida.

Seriously, the amount of bad judgment by the various actors in this case is amaziing - from Zimmerman, to the police, to the media, etc. it's just stunning.
thats a very good point, had never thought about it like that. also did not realize the immunity from arrest law was a seperate law than the stand your ground law. still i wouldn't mind seeing both of those laws amended.
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:56 PM   #280
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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The area I remembered was right by the road and side walk.
the area you remembered from what? i'm guessing a picture from the media? we already know how misleading those can be.
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:04 PM   #281
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Get over to Mothers at all?
Nope. But, if you want ot meet up for a drink there, just let me know when. Beginning in a couple weeks my Friday nights free up as my wife takes the kids over to the In-laws on the weekends.
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:07 PM   #282
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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thats a very good point, had never thought about it like that. also did not realize the immunity from arrest law was a seperate law than the stand your ground law. still i wouldn't mind seeing both of those laws amended.
Well, IMHO, "stand your ground" is not that bad it may need some tweaking. Based on some of saden1's statement both here and in other threads, not sure if he believes in the common law "duty to retreat" anyway. When pressed, I think a lot of people think they shouldn't have to run if, unprovoked, someone threatens them.
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:13 PM   #283
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Well, IMHO, "stand your ground" is not that bad it may need some tweaking. Based on some of saden1's statement both here and in other threads, not sure if he believes in the common law "duty to retreat" anyway. When pressed, I think a lot of people think they shouldn't have to run if, unprovoked, someone threatens them.
you shouldn't have to, but theres also a lot of other things i shouldn't have to do. comes back to that whole common sense thing, have to take each case as it comes and for the most part just have some faith in humanity.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:44 PM   #284
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Well, IMHO, "stand your ground" is not that bad it may need some tweaking.
I think any situation where you chase after a individual, the "stand your ground defense" should become null and void. I find it hard to believe that one can claim self defense when he was in fact being the aggressor and pursuing the other.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:16 PM   #285
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

I wasn't saying Zimmerman had a right to the stand your ground defense. I don't think he did. Rather, I think it was Martin that could invoke the stand your ground defense. In Maryland, if he felt threatened by Zimmerman's pursuit, Martin had a duty to retreat from Zimmerman. In Florida, under the same circumstances, Martin did not.

I think, the idea that Zimmerman could invoke the "stand your ground" defense comes from the version of the story where Martin waylays Zimmerman as he returns to his car. A version not born out by the girlfriend's statement or, IMHO, a reasonable view of the scene.
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