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Trayvon Martin Case

Debating with the enemy


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Old 06-26-2013, 02:53 PM   #541
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Interesting read, thanks mlmpetert.

EDIT:

Particularly this part:

Zimmerman did leave his truck to keep an eye on Martin but consented to the dispatcher's request that he not follow Martin. He was heading back to this truck when Martin confronted him. No other explanation makes sense -- except to the Florida prosecutors and the nation's media.

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Old 06-26-2013, 05:54 PM   #542
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
Interesting read, thanks mlmpetert.

EDIT:

Zimmerman did leave his truck to keep an eye on Martin but
Particularly this part:
consented to the dispatcher's request that he not follow Martin
. He was heading back to this truck when Martin confronted him. No other explanation makes sense -- except to the Florida prosecutors and the nation's media.
Will Zimmerman's past come back to haunt him?

Judge Debra Nelson heard arguments Tuesday morning on whether the jury in the George Zimmerman trial should hear about other incidents when Zimmerman reported suspicious people in his neighborhood, the Retreat at Twin Lakes.

The former neighborhood watch captain is charged with second-degree murder for shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin on Feb. 26, 2012. He told police he was pursuing the teenager because there had been a rash of crime in the area. A conflict ensued, and he says he was forced to kill Martin in self-defense.

Prosecutor Rich Mantei said Zimmerman's prior phone calls reporting suspicious people in the neighborhood is relevant to the case, because it helps prove motive by showing his "building level of frustration."

Zimmerman's defense disagreed. "They are going to be asking this jury to make a quantum leap from good responsible citizen behavior to seething anger," O'Mara said Tuesday morning.

Prosecutors called multiple witnesses in quick succession, including Wendy Dorival, who was a volunteer program manager for the Sanford, Florida police department in 2012. She coordinated and helped start the neighborhood watch programs in Zimmerman's community.

Dorival said she worked closely with Zimmerman, because he helped organize the program for his neighborhood. She told him a neighborhood watch volunteer should act as the "eyes and ears" of the police -- but to not like a vigilante.

"If you see a car driving around in circles, and you don't recognize the car in your community that might be suspicious." said Dorival. "If people are walking around in areas that not typically walked on that could be suspicious."

Jurors see photos of Trayvon Martin’s body | HLNtv.com
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:28 PM   #543
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Mmmmmm, impartiality!

5:23 p.m. ET: O'Mara shows Bahadoor her Facebook page and points out that she signed a petition on Change.org in favor of prosecuting Zimmerman. O'Mara has finished his questions and Bahadoor has been excused.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:36 PM   #544
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
You hope, right?



Not if it's in self defense and you have a right to carry the weapon. I'm sure there are many people on this forum right now who can kill with their bare hands. If you had to face an attacker who could kill you would you want to be able to defend yourself? NOTE: JR has been known to bore people to death. True story.



So does all caps.

If your community is targeted by burglars, as is well documented in this case, then would you challenge everyone who was unfamiliar to you or not? You're seeing racial profiling where there is none.

The media appreciates your compliance in following their rewriting of the facts.

Oh, and:

NBC broadcast three reports using audio edited to make it appear Zimmerman said, “This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.” The first report was produced by WTVJ in Miami, which fired reporter Jeff Burnside, who was involved in editing it. “Today” broadcast a report apparently influenced by WTVJ’s that edited the audio the same way; reporter Lilia Luciano lost her job with the network after that. The [Ron] Allen report was broadcast after those two, and apparently used the same audio track as the second.
If you get into a fist fight with someone in Florida and the other person dies as a result of injures received during the fight, it is charged as murder!!! If the injuries were not from the fight, then no murder. Zimmerman.. murder.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:39 PM   #545
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
Mmmmmm, impartiality!

5:23 p.m. ET: O'Mara shows Bahadoor her Facebook page and points out that she signed a petition on Change.org in favor of prosecuting Zimmerman. O'Mara has finished his questions and Bahadoor has been excused.
So what? What is the point? She is a prosecution witness. Zimmerman shot an unarmed boy. He claims he feared for his life, I'm calling Bullshit!
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:27 PM   #546
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So what? What is the point? She is a prosecution witness. Zimmerman shot an unarmed boy. He claims he feared for his life, I'm calling Bullshit!
Not wasting my time with you, read the thread from the start.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:14 AM   #547
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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agree , I don't think this goes well for him.
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:16 AM   #548
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary84Clark View Post
If you get into a fist fight with someone in Florida and the other person dies as a result of injures received during the fight, it is charged as murder!!! If the injuries were not from the fight, then no murder. Zimmerman.. murder.
Of course! Brilliant!! <sarcasm font off>
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:36 AM   #549
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

So was today a total disaster for the prosecution?
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Old 06-28-2013, 06:37 AM   #550
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Not total but certainly not particularly helpful.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:25 AM   #551
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

It really is hard to judge when you aren't in the court room to observe the person's demeanor. So much of how we communicate is done through our body language and tone of voice.

I agree that Jeannette was deemed a bad witness at the same time, the picture I got from reading the testimony is that the witnesses are all pretty much in an agreement that Zimmerman was on top of Martin at the end of the fight shortly after the gunshot.

Still, lots of confusion and conflicting testimony on a lot of issues which, of course, is helpful to the defense.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:40 AM   #552
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

There's not going to be a proverbial smoking-gun. This whole case has very little hard evidence as it relates to the circumstances of the shooting. Based on testimony I've seen the prosecution's star witness certainly came off like she intended to be less than forthcoming and based on her combative nature on the first day it made it look like she was out for vengeance. I think her testimony ends up helping Zimmerman at the very least by muddling everything up even more.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:32 PM   #553
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

I agree with your assessment of the evidence - or, more precisely, the lack thereof. From a practical perspective, however, I think the prosecutor's goal is to create enough circumstantial doubt about Zimmerman's innocence where the jury wants to hear his side of the story and, thus, put Zimmerman in a dilemma of testifying and risking a probably deadly cross or of not testifying and having the jury (despite any instruction not to) use his silence against him.

To that end, the star witness's testimony probably adds to the confusion of a deadly fight and increases the jury's desire for an explanation of what happened from Zimmerman.

Based on the evidence so far, I think the prosecution has a hard row to go - and certainly hasn't shown yet - 2nd degree murder. They may just be trying for manslaughter and count anything else as gravy.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:49 PM   #554
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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How could that help anyone if it was after the gun shot?
if zimmerman was on top of martin right after the gun shot, it is circumstantial evidence that zimmerman was on top of martin right before the gun shot.

direct evidence that a deer was in a field - witness says he saw a deer in a snowy field.

circumstantial evidence that a deer was in a field - witness says he saw fresh deer tracks in a snowy field.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:26 PM   #555
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Just read another witness's testimony. John Good who appears to have had the best "pre-gun shot" view and he clearly places Zimmerman on the ground with Martin in a "ground and pound" MMA position on top of him.

Quote:
Good said it seemed like the person on the bottom was yelling for help. Good said he saw the person on top “straddling”the person on the bottom, and the person on top was moving their hands in a downward striking motion that looked like what he called a "ground and pound," a term associated with MMA or mixed-martial arts fighting.

"It looked like that position was a ground-and-pound type position, but I couldn't tell 100% that there were actually fists hitting faces," said Good.

Defense attorney Mark O'Mara asked Good to define the term "ground and pound."

"It's usually when someone is on top in a mounted position, I believe, in the dominant position, but like I said the person on the bottom is able to throw punches back, but I did not see any of that," said Good.
Terrible witness for the prosecution.
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