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Trayvon Martin Case

Debating with the enemy


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Old 06-28-2013, 01:48 PM   #556
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Really fascinating watching the attorneys work.

Mr. Manalo seemed to be a good D witness.
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Old 06-28-2013, 02:18 PM   #557
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

^^ Right now the prosecution is putting on its case. They have to call the guy (Good) or the defense will and then it just looks like the prosecutors were hiding him from the jury. You'll notice (1) Prosecutor spent ~1/2 hour on Good's testimony but defense attorney spent 1.5 hours with him; and (2) Also, the prosecutor sandwiched him between Mr. and Mrs. Mannalo who they probably considered better witnesses (although Defense got in a great affirmation: Z's Attorney: "He was breathing hard, he looked like he had just gotten his butt beat", Manalo's response "Yes").

Again, prosecutor spent 20 mins with Mr. Manalo while defense ~ 45.

Have to say, I was not impressed with the "knock, knock" joke in the opening by Defense but they have done a very good job highlighting the evidentiary holes and the conflicting statements from various witnesses.

Also, it seems to me that the prosecutor is consistently asking only those whose testimony is favorable what they saw or said to police - they are letting the defense bring out the good statements in cross. I think that is a mistake.

Prosecutor doesn't have a lot to work with but I'm not sure he is making the most of what he has.
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Old 06-28-2013, 02:32 PM   #558
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

If yesterday was a bad day for the prosecution, today was REALLY bad. Not sure who they have left. Perhaps forensics to testify about the gunshot and the position of the bodies at the time of the firing?
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Old 06-28-2013, 02:43 PM   #559
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Here is a list of witnesses so far:

List of witnesses called in the George Zimmerman trial | Bay News 9
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:01 PM   #560
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Wow. The defense is doing a great job. Prosecutor spends 10 minutes getting some very mundane info from the EMT on the scene (essentially - Q: Was Martin dead? A: Yes; Q: Did Z have head injuries? A: Yes). Then, in five minutes (!!), Zimmerman's attorney has the EMT agree that, based on the injuries she observed, if Zimmerman was on his back, he would be swallowing blood from the nose injury and would reasonably be concerned about concussive or brain injuries.

And then this:

Q: Do you think a person who sustained those types of injuries in the back of their head should be concerned about their medical safety?

A: Possibly

Regardless of the outcome of this case, that's some damn fine lawyering right there - take a mundane fact witness and have them, essentially, create the prima facie case for your affirmative defense. Do it quickly and pointedly. I am in awe.

Based on this testimony, Zimmerman doesn't need to get on the stand testify that he was reasonably in fear of his life to establish his affirmative defense. Huge. Other witnesses may get more attention ultimately but this one was truly a game changer. On top of that, she was only on the stand for ~25 minutes.

Witness: Zimmerman, Martin in MMA-style fight | HLNtv.com
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Last edited by JoeRedskin; 06-28-2013 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:21 PM   #561
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

It's testimony like the EMT's that no one normally hears about that turns cases and has everyone who wasn't in the courtroom going "WTF - how could they rule that way?". Next time you see that happen, don't be so quick to judge the jury as idiots - they hear a ton of sh** nobody else does b/c it's just not sexy testimony. Ten minutes of testimony can drastically alter the outcome of a case.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:44 PM   #562
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Haven't watch any, but have read the stuff you all posted. I think its the media that wants to convict Zimmerman. Makes for a better storyline for them.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:48 PM   #563
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

joe - i havent had a chance to follow the trial live .. im actually pretty much following it from your synopsis at this point ..... if the jury find for the defense after hearing and considering all the evidence and testimony then i can live with the verdict but .... i hope forensic evidence concludes that martin never had control of the gun and the jury can hang their guilty verdict hat on that bc i dont believe a person should be able to use deadly force on an unarmed person.

either way, one side of this is going to be very upset.

is there a lesser included charge in play? man 2?
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:54 PM   #564
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

I am just reading the blogger posts from here: Witness: Zimmerman, Martin in MMA-style fight | HLNtv.com

If you scroll down, you'll see the almost minute by minute posting. Again, a lot of what is happening is getting lost b/c we can't see or hear the witnesses but the blogger seems to be getting the crux of it.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:56 PM   #565
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by over the mountain View Post
joe - i havent had a chance to follow the trial live .. im actually pretty much following it from your synopsis at this point .....
Great. Now JR becomes the WP Legal Analyst.

Quote:
Originally Posted by over the mountain View Post
if the jury find for the defense after hearing and considering all the evidence and testimony then i can live with the verdict but ....
They will unless they go all OJ. The facts will come out and show that Martin was the aggressor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by over the mountain View Post
i hope forensic evidence concludes that martin never had control of the gun and the jury can hang their guilty verdict hat on that bc i dont believe a person should be able to use deadly force on an unarmed person.
Just because someone doesn't have a weapon shouldn't stop the use of defensive lethal response. You'd want a gun if Chuck Norris threw down with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by over the mountain View Post
either way, one side of this is going to be very upset.

is there a lesser included charge in play? man 2?
Not guilty. Cue the riots.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:58 PM   #566
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

oh ... i followed the min by min postings on the first day. was helpful.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:02 PM   #567
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Just because someone doesn't have a weapon shouldn't stop the use of defensive lethal response. You'd want a gun if Chuck Norris threw down with you.

---------------------------------------------------

I have a big problem accepting the use of deadly force on an unarmed combatant. Just bc you are losing the fist fight doesnt mean you get to shoot them.

and no the sidewalk or fist doesnt count as a deadly weapon imo.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:02 PM   #568
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
Haven't watch any, but have read the stuff you all posted. I think its the media that wants to convict Zimmerman. Makes for a better storyline for them.
From a moral judgment standpoint a bunch of stuff matters that doesn't matter in a legal sense and vice-versa. He may not be "guilty" but he almost surely is responsible. That's why something like this is such a big deal media-wise. Responsible and guilty aren't the same thing. The media on the whole feeds the mentality that responsibility = guilt. Same thing happened in the OJ case. The prosecution didn't prove he was guilty. Everyone KNOWS he did it but that doesn't matter.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:05 PM   #569
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Zimmerman should be banned from owning or possessing a handgun (Firearm), for life. No more.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:08 PM   #570
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by over the mountain View Post
joe - i havent had a chance to follow the trial live .. im actually pretty much following it from your synopsis at this point ..... if the jury find for the defense after hearing and considering all the evidence and testimony then i can live with the verdict but .... i hope forensic evidence concludes that martin never had control of the gun and the jury can hang their guilty verdict hat on that bc i dont believe a person should be able to use deadly force on an unarmed person.
either way, one side of this is going to be very upset.

is there a lesser included charge in play? man 2?
I have no problem with the use of deadly force if you are being beaten to death. If you're being overpowered, you have the right to defend yourself. [NOTE: If you initiated the fight and are simply losing, no -- deadly force is not okay. Even if you start a fight, the other person doesn't have the right to beat you to death - you can protect yourself but you're right to claim self-defense is severely impaired].

As to the lesser charge, I don't know for sure but would expect manslaughter to be available if they don't find 2nd degree murder. Right now, not sure they even have that.

What they have is: After a verbal confrontation, somehow a fight started, the two were rolling around and, at some point, Zimmerman is his back with Martin giving him the "ground and pound" while Zimmerman has injuries that could put a reasonable person in fear of their life.

Not sure I would send someone to jail on that.
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